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Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Gluing 2 single sided boards to make a double sided board.

From: James <bitsyboffin@...>
Date: 2015-07-06

Interesting ideas everybody, to so summarise everybody's comments

1. it does work
2. use alignment holes and pins as a jig to align the two sides
3. use epoxy
4. drill the actual holes after the glue-up
5. it might not be any easier in the long run :-)

I might grab some 0.8mm and give it a go.

I use PCB rivets for vias, so my thought was to use these as the alignment pins, they are a tight fit in 0.8mm holes.

May I ask exactly how you are lining the layers up?

I use photo exposure (dry film resist) on a single sided UV box, when doing double sided, I use the inside corner of a plastic set-square as a stop agains the same corner on the bottom and top artwork, and push the appropriate PCB corner into the square for each side.  It works oookay for the most part, but if you don't have two perfectly perpendicular sides on your PCB so there is no "wobble" when you push it into the square's inside corner, it's easy to get a slight rotational misalignment.  

That said, my may well be that I can't drill perpendicular hand-held to save my life, doesn't take much of an angle to break out of a 0.2 or 0.3mm annular ring on the backside when being perfectly centred on the front side.  Perhaps I should just get a mini drill press and rig up some camera magnification on it :-)


On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 8:36 AM, Harvey White madyn@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 13:41:48 +0000, you wrote:

>I must say, the idea of gluing together two single-sided PCBs to make a
>double-sided PCB seems excessively tedious.
>
>
>Perhaps it's because I don't really agree with you that the most difficult
>part of a double-sided PCB is lining the holes / tracks up.
>

Was for me, but I do 0.019 holes (or so, a #76 or so drill), 144 pin
FPGA chips, 0.5mm spacing, 0.010 traces. YMMV on that.

>
>When I first started, I thought lining up the holes would be the most
>difficult part. But I've never had anything but great success in this area.
>
>
>The most difficult part for me has been knowing how long to iron and the
>time it takes to peel. To get excellent results (really fine / straight
>edges to tracks and toner that adheres amazingly well) I iron for 35-40
>minutes... and the longer I iron the harder it is to remove the paper. This
>to me seems excessive but anything else results in having to use a lot of
>sharpie and boards that don't look as nice.

I use Pulsar paper, which is not as transparent as what you may be
using. aligning top and bottom is not that easy, since the paper is a
good 60# paper, about the consistency of a paperback book cover.

>
>
>May I ask exactly how you are lining the layers up?
>
>
>Here's my process. Here I overexplain it, but it doesn't actually take more
>than 3-5 minutes.
>
>
>I cut the two pieces of paper, one piece slightly smaller than the other to
>allow for better grip when I tape them together.
>
>
>I hold the two pieces of paper up against a worklight and ensure the
>designs line-up perfectly, then fold a tiny piece of masking tape over the
>two pieces of paper, in the middle of one of the edges. I then hold them up
>to the light to ensure they are still lined up, and add another small piece
>of tape onto the middle of another of the edges. If for some reason the
>papers became misaligned it's then easy to remove a single tab of tape and
>do it again.

I had tried this with pin pokes through the paper to create holes.
Accuracy of drilling is critical, of course.

>
>
>Finally, repeat the process for the third side, check the alignment by
>shining the worklight through the papers, then run tape lenghtways down all
>three sides.
>
>
>Drop the board in (which has been prepared obsessively with metal wool and
>white spirit / acetone) and check there that the effect of separating the
>papers with the 1.6mm FR4 hasn't misaligned the papers. Almost every time
>I've dropped the PCB in, it hasn't caused any misalignment. Always check
>the papers lie flat.
>
>
>When the PCB is in, seal the final 4th side with a line of masking tape. It
>doesn't matter if the PCB rattles around, in fact it's better to make the
>paper a fair bit larger than the PCB that drops into the envelope you have
>created.
>
>
>You then line up the PCB so it fits to the design just before you iron
>(using a worklight again).
>
>
>The above hasn't failed for me ever, and it's pretty quick to do despite my
>over-explanation!

With the Pulsar paper, I don't need to iron that much. I also had
pattern damage when feeding a double-sided board through the laminator
∗if∗ I was trying to do one side at a time on double sided board.

Harvey

>
>
>Thanks
>
>
>Mat
>On Sun, 5 Jul 2015 at 12:14, 'Tony Smith' ajsmith1968@...
>[Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>> The drilled holes will never line up properly, it’s a fundamental property
>> of universe.
>>
>>
>>
>> When gluing use a bright light underneath so you can see both sets of
>> tracks, and use something like the mounting hole outlines to align them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ∗From:∗ Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
>> Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
>> ∗Sent:∗ Sunday, 5 July 2015 3:14 PM
>> ∗To:∗ Homebrew PCBs
>> ∗Subject:∗ [Homebrew_PCBs] Gluing 2 single sided boards to make a double


>> sided board.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Double sided boards as we all know can be a bit of a pain, the biggest
>> problem is getting that precise alignment between sides correct so that
>> when you drill in the center of your pad on one side, it comes out in the
>> center of the pad on the other (and not, as is not uncommon, breaking out,
>> and probably messing up the trace, or a trace nearby...). Especially if
>> your only able to expose/imprint artwork one side at a time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Even more frustrating when one side comes out perfect in part of the
>> process (eg, developing) and the other side is too flawed to be useful,
>> meaning you get to start from scratch again.
>>
>>
>
>>
>> So, the thought randomly occurred to me today, if you could prepare,
>> expose, etch, drill the two sides of a double sided board completely
>> separately, and join them up at the end of the process, it would make
>> getting precise alignment of those sides almost a non-issue, assuming you
>> can drill even roughly vertically and hit the center of the holes it's just
>> a matter of lining up the holes you drilled on each side. And also means
>> that the success or failure of each side is independent of the other.
>>
>>
>>
>> Of course, it does double the drilling, but that's the easy bit really.
>>
>
>>
>>
>> This is also of course more or less how multi layer PCBs are made by
>
>> fabricators, a stackup of already prepared pcb layers and resin impregnated
>> sheets.
>>
>>
>>
>> Single sided laminate at 0.8mm thick (and you can get down to 0.5mm) is
>> available out of China for cheap.
>>
>>
>>
>> Eg:
>>
>>
>> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-1192550948.12.TIEXsq&id=35870048695
>>
>>
>> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.4.VdTsRT&id=21105435798&ns=1&abbucket=3#detail
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anybody done this... am I reinventing a triangular wheel here, is it
>> doomed to failure? Suggestions on suitable adhesive... maybe just spray on
>> contact adhesive might work, it's a pretty big flat contact area.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>