Archive of the former Yahoo!Groups mailing list: Homebrew PCBs

Hi All,

I've been lurking on this list for some time and seen a lot of different
takes on making PCBs, whether it's toner-transfer, direct-print via
last/inkjet, or UV-exposed resist (And a few stranger ideas). One thing I
have noticed is that it is sometimes difficult or impossible to obtain the
raw materials for our projects. In some cases (Dry film resists) it either
takes forever (2 weeks to over a 3 months!) to get some from Hong Kong or
the Czech Republic (via eBay), or you have to buy a lot at one time (Think'n
Tinker 100-foot rolls for example, at $150+ w/mandatory express shipping).
There are exceptions, but finding them and having any idea of how "fresh"
the film is (Which is important to get reasonable results) is problematic.
A couple years ago a company called Genesis MT sold a great product by the
name of AQ-3000 water-based photoresist. It worked very well, was very
reasonable for the amount you got for the price, and was available via
eBay. Recently I found they had been acquired by another "professional
services"-type company that requires large, company purchases of anything
(i.e. ask for a quote, and no way to buy electronically). It is now
impossible to get any of this great resist, the only water-based photoresist
around. I don't consider the VOC-based resists as viable for use due to
health concerns.

What I propose is that we as a group of hobbyists provide our own materials,
where some of us will volunteer to be a source for a particular material, in
this case photo-imaging materials. I know there has been a lot of
experimentation with direct/transfer tech but for repeatable, high-quality
boards you really can't beat photoresist-based boards. I'm sure some people
will differ with me but I've read too much about problems with board
coatings, pre/post-heating, different inks (Sometimes very expensive), and
the challenges modifying inkjet printers to be very interested, especially
after I ruined a perfectly good printer trying it myself :-)

Naturally I am volunteering for the dry film photoresist, since I have
already placed an order which should be here in a couple days. I'd like to
do the same for the Genesis AQ3000, although I have to find out the minimum
order quantity (Apparently they make up a fresh batch for each order) and
available payment methods. I'd like to think that we can use enough of the
purchased products to have them avoid going bad (Shelf life for AQ3000 is 6
months, similar for dry-film). I would suggest charging actual cost plus a
small surcharge to cover gas and time spent (Maybe $3.00 per order?). I
want to make it possible for us to use high-quality products without a lot
of delay or uncertainty/experimentation in regards to product quality. The
cost would include cost of postage plus mailing materials (Padded envelope
or plastic bottle+box for AQ3000). If it's popular enough, I could offer
additional things like drill bits, PCB blanks, etc.

I am certainly not adverse to having someone else take all the "business"
from me, as the whole point of this exercise is to provide the materials at
near-cost, quickly. However, since nobody else has suggested this (That I
can remember) I figured I could at least start the process. I have to add
some disclaimers here: I reserve the right to ship within 2-3 business days
of a prepaid order, and if there are unusual restrictions on shipping items
there (i.e. countries that have export regulations for the USA) I also will
not even try to ship an order. Likewise, if I find out after the order has
been placed it's going to be a lot of hassle to ship to I reserve the right
to refuse/refund orders. Ditto for people who piss me off, sorry, I just
won't work with people who can't be polite. If there are unusual
circumstances like having a package refused and returned I also will charge
a fee based on the time spent plus shipping/materials (Assuming the PCB
materials can be re-used and are not damaged). And finally, I reserve the
right to halt the service at any time, refunding any outstanding orders.

This whole idea is an experiment in supply and demand and so I apologize for
all the disclaimers. I don't want to be sued or even given a bad reputation
because I had a package returned from Elbonia after being opened and
damaged, and the person is upset.

I apologize for the length of this email, but I'd like to gauge the interest
levels (And potential orders) from people in the group and elsewhere.
Please email me if you're interested, and what you would like to see
offered. I would probably accept PayPal (Yes, they aren't wonderful but
they're big and fairly reliable) for payment. Materials could either be
ordered direct from me or I could post auctions on eBay, but I'm more
interested in serving the community we have here rather than the entire
world. I have a day job and this is just a way to benefit a group of
like-minded people, so it can't be too much of a hassle or I will need to
either put a stop to it or raise prices. It may be necessary to go the eBay
route just to avoid having materials expire but I'd like to avoid it. Let
me know!


Kind regards-
Larry Battraw


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