Hi Adam
> From the prices you listed, it seems the MK2 etching system
>costs about the same as the MD-70RZ pump I'm looking at buying
>for the spray etcher. To decide if it is worthwhile building a
>spray etcher using this pump then it will have to be perform a
>lot better than the MK2 machine.
That's exactly the point, and the dilemma is that without trying the
MK2 (or which ever of these) it's impossible to tell.
>I understand your arguments on home built machines. From my
>experience I believe in general its not worth your time and money
>building something yourself if it is already commercially
>available and all you are interested in at the end of the day is
>something to do the job.
Yes, I completely agree here. However, as you also tell later on spray
etchers, as you intend to build one, are only available at hilarious
high prices so building one of those on your own DOES make sense IMHO.
>As you mentioned there are other risks
>with home build equipment, like the finances of reiterating
>designs before having something finally workable. There is a
>learning curve which may or many not be enjoyable for you.
The learning and building is undoublty much fun. It's just that if you
have a limitted budget it may means that the "project" get's much
delayed because you may have to wait another two months to convince
your wife that those $300 now have to be spent :))
> It
>sounds like you have also had some disappointing results with
>some past projects.
No, the through hole plating machine is far away from being
disapointing. It's actually a great project and even though I had to
pay more for it than someone just building it after my design it's
worth every penny I spent for it.
I never start a project before I'm sure that I can complete it. It's
just that sometimes you end up buying 70% of the material needed twice
- and that can get costly :)
>I can tell you I've had my fair share of
>disaster projects. I'm almost too embarrassed to mention them
>all, and would hate to think the amount of money I've wasted over
>the past three years.
Well, for a real homebrewer things are usually not that bad cause
those "wrong" materials turn out to be the right ones in a (sometimes
years) later project.
> I cannot tell you whether you should buy
>the rotary spray etcher since I'm unfamiliar with its concept.
As mentioned before, I do have such an etcher already from "Radix" but
this one was not constructed with enough care and therefore the
results are sometimes brilliant, sometimes however disaterous and
there is no recognizeable pattern why. In other words, even if I
exactly measure the times, asure the same setup - well even the same
PCB is in there the results differ a lot. The machine is nice for not
so fine artwork but that's not what I use most often. However, the
principle seems to be ok.
>If
>you were to make one then I would recommend using the spray
>nozzle/pump approach because it is a more proven method of
>etching PCBs. I am still pondering over the design so it can be
>constructed with minimal effort, which is the aim. My reasons for
>build my own spray etcher are;
>
>∗ I have enough evidence to show a well setup spray etcher gives
>the best quality etching.
>∗ Commercial spray etchers (not the rotating tube type) are many
>times more expensive than the cost of parts to build my own.
>∗ Based on the things I've learnt from building other chemical
>processing equipment, this does not look like an extremely
>complicated project.
>∗ I enjoy tinkering in the workshop and creating things.
>∗ I am not time constrained.
Ack, I completely agree that if the effort to build one is made it's
better to aproach a better concept than those that are comercially
available at this price level.
>When I have something working I will publish the construction
>details on my web address for anyone else who is interested.
That would be great cause I'm sure I could save alot of money :) What
I would achive thought is to have an etcher that run's based on Fe3Cl
- hence the nozzels may would have to be made of plastics or such. I
have still multiple pounds of Fe3Cl on stock here which I happened to
buy in a not so bright moment - so using it up is of some importance
to me :)
Could you elaborate a bit why you are using the etchant (I did not
catched which one) you are using and where the specific advantages
are?
> I
>get the feeling there aren't too many fanatics like you and me
>out there who will actually be silly enough to attempt home
>brewed through hole plated PCBs :)
>
>Adam
That's in fact true. Since I have my page about the through hole
palting machine online ~3 people asked detailed questions but I did
not got the impression that any of them really started to build one.
There is one exception though. A friend of mine will build one
although he already have a comercial one (he's not too happy with it).
However he currently must finish his military training thus he's out
of the loop for some months to come.
It's somehow hard to understand cause in the longer run it's even a
lot cheaper than having PCB's made externally - hmm, did I mentioned
on this list already that I meanwhile managed to also create
multilayer PCB's? I mention it in this context cause a 4x4" four layer
PCB costs me ~$13 a double sided one of the same size ~$8 quite hard
to beat IMHO. Especially if you consider that you don't have to wait
for them to be made etc. (creating this 4-layer PCB lasted 5 hours
only!) I'm even more surprized that engineering firms etc. which
obviousely do have a need for many prototypes don't use this option.
But well, it really seems that it takes a fanatic one to do this :))
Markus
>
>
>Markus Zingg wrote:
>
>
> > The MK2 costs EUR 249
> > the Turbo EZ is EUR 437 and
> > the Turbo DZ is EUR 550
> >
> > I haven't made up my mind yet wether I'm going to buy one of
>those or
> > not. I'm currently held busy elsewhere and will get back to
>this topic
> > and a decision as soon as time permits. I mean building one
>myself is
> > also going to cost money so the result of a homebuilt one
>either would
> > have to be better or then I must be sure that time and money will
> > result in a lower price (which based on the exeperience with
>building
> > the through plating machine I somehow doubht).
> >
> >
> >
> > The biggest chalange with home built machines that you design
>yourself
> > is (IMHO) that you always must take the risk of buying parts
>to just
> > try if it works out well and there is some (not so low)
>percentage of
> > stuff that you buy where you end up with the conclusion that
>it does
> > not work well hence the money for it is most often lost. It's
>quite a
> > lot easier to build something after plans or such based on other
> > peoples experience than develop all by yourself although the
>latter is
> > undoubtly much more fun.
> >
> > With regard to the rotary spray etcher I really somehow doubht
>if it's
> > worth the effort to design one bymyself because the prices -
>although
> > not really cheap - are still in a range where building one myself
> > could turn out to be a bad deal. This was very different with the
> > through plating machine where nothing in a compareable
>pricerange (and
> > quality of course) was available. This statement is however
>not really
> > related to your plans of building the kind of machine you are
>thinking
> > of cause I do agree that this machine will be much closer to
>what they
> > use in professional board shops.
> >
> > Markus
> >
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