Homebrew Printed Circuit BoardsRegarding the GBC laminator:
I found the laminator under 'closeouts' at www.geeks.com. It is out-of-stock.
Jeff:
That was a neat mod and video. Thanks!
Larry
From:
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:05 AM
To:
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Digest Number 3243
Homebrew Printed Circuit Boards
Messages In This Digest (2 Messages)
1a. Re: another GBC laminator mod results From: Ryan Fobel
1b. Re: another GBC laminator mod results From: sailingto
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1a. Re: another GBC laminator mod results
Posted by: "Ryan Fobel"
rrfobel@... rrfobel
Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:30 am (PDT)
This looks great. I'm not sure if I'm seeing it right, but it looks to me
like the motor is only driving the bottom roller. Is that true?
What material are you using for the side plates? It looks like there are 2
layers (one appears to be FR-4, but there is also a thicker, white layer).
Thanks,
-Ryan
On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 12:31 AM, Jeff Heiss <jeff.heiss@...> wrote:
>
>
> Youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY-ZWBdrHrs
> Album 1: "another GBC mod"
> Album 2: "another GBC mod results"
>
> Just wanted to pass along my results of my GBC laminator mod. In summery: 5
> mils is no problem at all.
>
> The mod was done to the blue GBC Creative laminator model 1701870. It is
> sold everywhere, mine was purchased at www.geeks.com for $12.99.
>
> As I was testing the higher temperatures that we need for toner transfer I
> found the plastic end plates that hold everything together in the laminator
> were melting. There is a picture of the melting in the photos. I made a
> first attempt to copy jp.gleyzes mod in the "JPG_GBC_laminator" folder. My
> end plates cracked probably because I made the rollers too close in my own
> template. I could not use his template because the parts in my laminator
> were different than the ones he used. The end product of my mod is my own
> design where the rollers pivot up and down, which is improved over the way
> all these GBC laminators work from the factory. It uses new redesigned end
> plates for higher temperature and roller up-down pivoting, a light dimmer to
> control the temperature, and a cooking thermometer from Deal Extreme for
> measurement. It works great - up to 500F and accepts boards of any
> thickness. Three boards on top of each other go through no problem (two are
> shown in the youtube video).
>
> To test the results, I used test artwork of 10 mil lines down to 5 mil
> lines (also in the pictures) from
>
> http://www.delorie.com/pcb/spirals/
>
> Paper used was magazine paper. The results are great! The places where the
> lines are cut in the pictures were where the toner was accidentally
> scratched before I etched the board or did not adhere from the laminator. I
> experimented with how many passes. Eight works fine. After soaking in
> boiling water and removing the paper by lightly rubbing with a finger, I
> found it useful to use a paint brush to get small pieces of paper left
> between the traces. The bristles get where your finger can't. Although other
> people are using other temperatures, the temperature that worked best for me
> was 250F. The printer used was your typical office floor standing laser
> printer at my work.
>
> I found it matters where you measure the temperature on the laminator to
> get an accurate reading. Measuring on the aluminum heaters produces a
> different temperature than between the rollers. So for a true reading, you
> must stick a thermocouple between the rollers. I found the temperature where
> the stock sensor was mounted on the aluminum heaters (where my cooking
> thermometer is also mounted) is 25F higher than the rollers. So for a 250F,
> you want a reading of 225 if using the stock sensor location to mount your
> probe.
>
> Now that it was time to etch, the next batch of experiments were in order
> to determine how much hydrogen peroxide and hydrogen chloride etchant was
> require to etch a given area of clad. The results show an estimated:
>
> H2O2 3%: 3.2 mL - 4.8 mL per square inch
> HCl 30%: 1.6 mL - 3.2 mL per square inch
>
> So, for example, a single sided, 2oz, 12" by 12" board requires 460.8 mL
> H2O2 and 230.4 mL HCl
>
> Using a middle range, the board in the pictures completed in 3.5 minutes. I
> warmed the etchant to 100F and used a foam brush to help the process along.
>
>
>
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Messages in this topic (3)
1b. Re: another GBC laminator mod results
Posted by: "sailingto" sailingtoo@... sailingto
Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:23 pm (PDT)
Do you have a link to the 1701870 laminator at geeks.com?
I watched your video and GREAT JOB!
Ken H>
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Heiss" <jeff.heiss@...> wrote:
>
> Youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY-ZWBdrHrs
> Album 1: "another GBC mod"
> Album 2: "another GBC mod results"
>
> Just wanted to pass along my results of my GBC laminator mod. In summery: 5 mils is no problem at all.
>
> The mod was done to the blue GBC Creative laminator model 1701870. It is sold everywhere, mine was purchased at www.geeks.com for $12.99.
>
> As I was testing the higher temperatures that we need for toner transfer I found the plastic end plates that hold everything together in the laminator were melting. There is a picture of the melting in the photos. I made a first attempt to copy jp.gleyzes mod in the "JPG_GBC_laminator" folder. My end plates cracked probably because I made the rollers too close in my own template. I could not use his template because the parts in my laminator were different than the ones he used. The end product of my mod is my own design where the rollers pivot up and down, which is improved over the way all these GBC laminators work from the factory. It uses new redesigned end plates for higher temperature and roller up-down pivoting, a light dimmer to control the temperature, and a cooking thermometer from Deal Extreme for measurement. It works great - up to 500F and accepts boards of any thickness. Three boards on top of each other go through no problem (two are shown in the youtube video).
>
> To test the results, I used test artwork of 10 mil lines down to 5 mil lines (also in the pictures) from
>
> http://www.delorie.com/pcb/spirals/
>
> Paper used was magazine paper. The results are great! The places where the lines are cut in the pictures were where the toner was accidentally scratched before I etched the board or did not adhere from the laminator. I experimented with how many passes. Eight works fine. After soaking in boiling water and removing the paper by lightly rubbing with a finger, I found it useful to use a paint brush to get small pieces of paper left between the traces. The bristles get where your finger can't. Although other people are using other temperatures, the temperature that worked best for me was 250F. The printer used was your typical office floor standing laser printer at my work.
>
> I found it matters where you measure the temperature on the laminator to get an accurate reading. Measuring on the aluminum heaters produces a different temperature than between the rollers. So for a true reading, you must stick a thermocouple between the rollers. I found the temperature where the stock sensor was mounted on the aluminum heaters (where my cooking thermometer is also mounted) is 25F higher than the rollers. So for a 250F, you want a reading of 225 if using the stock sensor location to mount your probe.
>
> Now that it was time to etch, the next batch of experiments were in order to determine how much hydrogen peroxide and hydrogen chloride etchant was require to etch a given area of clad. The results show an estimated:
>
> H2O2 3%: 3.2 mL - 4.8 mL per square inch
> HCl 30%: 1.6 mL - 3.2 mL per square inch
>
> So, for example, a single sided, 2oz, 12" by 12" board requires 460.8 mL H2O2 and 230.4 mL HCl
>
> Using a middle range, the board in the pictures completed in 3.5 minutes. I warmed the etchant to 100F and used a foam brush to help the process along.
>
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