Hi Markus
I understand what your opinion is..
But i too know why people are not so prepared to spend so much $$ on
software as on hardware.
When they buy hardware they get something material, it is made of parts
which they
are sure are also bought somewhere. They can imagine that it takes a lot of
time to manufacture
this and put everything together...
They don't think about the design process, that it was very complicated and
expensive
and that half of the price is for that.
And with software they only imagine the guy running the big cd copier
making a hundred cds per
second. nothing of big value there.
I understand your opinion, esecially as you are a software designer...
but still i think it won't hurt eagle if i don't pay because at that time i
would never ever buy it.
(remember actually i don't use eagle because i didn't like)
At some point i think software should be free..
I know this is impossible for software programmers but i would like it.
I also think knoweledge shold be free (plans etc.).
I know programming is just as hard work as building something but... on the
other side it are only bits and bytes..
I will keep your opinion in mind for sure and think about it...
But i can't fully agree because this would not be honest and i think that
is more important....
@steve thanks, i never will write such things again. i understand this is
not good st this list....
please excuse this...
stefan
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 21:08:12 +0200, Markus Zingg <m.zingg@...> wrote:
> Hi Stefan
>
>> i only want to mention that there are ways to get around eagles "free"
>> limits if you only
>> want it for personal pcbs.
>> I tried it for some days unlimited without paying for it.
>
> If you refer to the cracked version of Eagle, then the problem is that
> this one generates files that are not readable by the oficial version
> anymore - apart from all moral isues and my personal intention that
> useing such cracked software is not ok at all.
>
>> me feeling about this is the folowing:
>> i would clearly not buy a package like eagle or any other cad for some
>> 100 usd (or ∗10 or ∗100)
>> because this is way too much for me. i can't spend that much on
>> software, i can hardly spend it on hardware.
>
> That's a very symptomatic attitude I mostly see among european people.
> It's TOTALY wrong. Why do you spend money on hardware? Simple -
> because there is no alternative! Basically that's not fair - period.
>
> I wrote software over the past 20 years. A year ago I started to delve
> into developping hardware and I just finished my first comercial
> product. It involves a 16 bit CPU, RAM, Flash, Networkcontroller a
> CompactFlash etc. etc. That said it's not trivial. Although I had to
> teach all this to myself and although there was a steep learning curve
> I must say that developing hardware needs LESS time and efforts than
> developping software. I wrote many many kind of software over the
> years including operating system drivers, database engines, software
> develpement tools, ERP kind of software, video processing software
> etc. etc.
>
> What I'm trying to tell is that the times where writing software was
> creating good revenues are long over. SW engineers have high saleries
> (which the good creative ones also really deserve) and they need
> utterly long to develop a complex piece of software and customers
> can't imagine what's behind the scense and as such have very high
> demands combined with the intention that it's all simple easy and does
> not cost money. All those efforts to keep up with this must be payed
> and this is calculated into the procuct price. There really is enough
> competition around. Just look at schema capture and layout software.
> There are TONS of products around and considering the amount of work
> needed to make such a packet, prices are remarkably low!
>
> I do agree though that they are high for a privat individual (i.e. a
> student) but they are not made for this "market". Haveing a studend
> version of a software is of course the manufactures decission and I
> figure there are reasons which have their sources in the treatement of
> studend versions by students why some of them don't have this option.
>
>> but still i want to use it. for privat purposes, not selling much of
>> great value (maybe to compensate material
>> costs and the time if i make something for a (not so good) friend.....).
>> but still i never would buy the software... because i can't afford....
>>
>> so i find a way to use it (not limited which may render it unuseable)
>> without paying...
>>
>> the advantage for the programming company is the following:
>> i use it, i know it, obviously i like it as i use it.
>> if i ever have to choose a software package or suggest one i definitely
>> would suggest this one i use.
>> if i talk to anybody about the specific software kind i would tell him
>> that i use this particular package.
>> so he knows it too. if he has to decide what to buy he has already heard
>> of the package i use.
>>
>> so maybe at a time there will be a additional buyer of the software (me
>> or not) in the future
>> because i now use it without paying....
>
> While this might be, it still also signals others around you that
> there is a way to use software (in genral) without paying and that
> it's ok to do so which is simply plain wrong leading to limitted
> versions and leading to high prices and protective behaviour of the
> software manufactures.
>
> It's really funny. Ok, I created my first product involving hardware -
> now, the funny part is that while it contains a lot less software than
> other (software only) products I made, NOBODY discusses about the
> price just for a second, while a software only product is ALWAYS too
> expensive - something must be very wrong in society.
>
> I'm now selling software globally for about 10 years with customers in
> almost any country around the globe. The funny thing is that your
> attitude (and I don't really intend to offend you personally but refer
> to it as a kind of attitude) is most widely spreaded across europe. I
> must admit that US customers are much more aware of what it means to
> run a business, taking all the risks involved etc. and genrally behave
> very differntly here. They are either conviced that a software helps
> them solving a problem and hence are ready to pay for it or they just
> don't bother to use it et all. Ok, there are (rare) exceptions, but I
> really think we europeans (I'm myself one) really have a problem here.
> I don't know if this is a left over from socialism or what, it's just
> realyl sick in it's nature.
>
>> i think this is pretty much the philosophy of "student version".
>> but some companies don't offer student versions. so i have to find
>> another way (and there are other ways....).
>
> Of course there are. You are a talented guy. Create something, sell it
> and buy the software you need out of the revenue. IMHO you are much
> better than I when it comes to design hardware - again, use that
> potential.
>
>> I don't know how the law is in your country and how exactly it is
>> controlled.
>> but here i have not heared of any case where PERSONAL useage without
>> paying was legaly prosecuted...
>
> Which again, is totaly totaly wrong, teaching public to behave the
> total wrong way. Officials SHOULD prosecute such behaviour to make
> people aware that there is NO difference in genral between buying a
> bread or a pice of software. Pirating software is just plain and
> simple steeling.
>
>> it may get more "dangerous" in the future.... and for companies it is a
>> big no no....
>
> Dont' know that you tried to say with this statement...
>
>> ok, i hope i wrote this as careful and discrete as possible...
>
> Well, I understood your post as an invitation to others to search the
> net for a cracked version of eagle. Again, that's imoral and wrong. I
> really urge you to think about all this again. I like to point out
> though that I apreciate you as a person and seeing you here on this
> list. I just think that with regard to this topic you are really
> really wrong.
>
> Markus
>
>
>
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