My laminator LCD screen says 328 degrees. I dont have anyway to confirm the temp!
I pass my boards thru about ten times. I never have any trouble with the paper sticking to the board.
My laminator has variable speed on the rollers and I use the slowest setting.. The GBC H535 will accept up to 100 mills thickness..
Some one else suggested Royal Bright photo paper. It is sold at Sams club and may be walmart..
The person who suggested it says it will float off the board..
Mike
From: Mike Phillips <mikep_95133@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 3:43:26 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Slipping rollers on new GBC H310 (and paper testing)
Since the HP Presentation paper we have is the same part number then the only thing that is different is our printers, laminators, and the temperatures used.
The HP Presentation paper transfer is about the same quality as my magazine paper transfer, with my process right now. This could change in the future.
I think that if we each had the temperature of our rollers like Ken has mentioned we would have a more universal process that more people would have success with. Right now the same paper is not producing the same results between us. So it has to be our processes.
Ken talks about temps should be around 360-380F. My rollers are 280-294F. Yet the HP Photo paper acts like it is melting at far too high of a temperature. It still won't come off of the copper. The gloss of the Hammermill Color laser Gloss is sticking to the pcb as well. It sure sounds like it's too hot. Then again the magazine paper is working decently, but could be better.
My clothes iron is around 300F. Laminator is about the same. That's why my magazine paper produces about the same quality Toner Transfer with my iron or with my laminator. These temps are measured with a thermocouple and a digital thermometer. The infrared/laser inferometers are not always accurate if the surface has the wrong type of finish.
To think it's just the paper being the problem is not accurate. I think the process has to be dialed into the specific paper being tried. I don't think that all papers are universal. I think they effect the temperature required in a big way. So I think a paper has to be chosen, then a process dialed in to match the paper.
Worst case I can use my magazine paper and the laminator at it's highest temp setting and get a decent board with the laminator. I'd rather have the quality and ease of use of the photo paper that folks have raved about. But there seem to be too many variations in each person's process to make it a universal process just yet.
If you have a paper that works great, please supply the temperature of the laminator rollers along with it, and the board thickness.
Mike
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@ yahoogroups. com, michael tenore <wb2lcw@...> wrote:
>
> I never have a problem with HP presentation paper and I soak it for a while in warm water and then peel off the paper carefully.
>
> then i resoak and rub off with my thumbs..
>
> mike
>
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> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: Mike Phillips <mikep_95133@ ...>
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Friday, August 7, 2009 7:12:52 PM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Slipping rollers on new GBC H310 (and paper testing)
>
>
> That red stuff between transfers is just a reflection. That's virgin pcb and it is very clean.
>
> Mike
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@ yahoogroups. com, "Mike Phillips" <mikep_95133@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > The rollers are still slipping some. But now I need to move on to getting a good Toner Transfer.
> >
> > So I tried the HP Presentation 130g paper. Passed it through the laminator 4 times. I pulled the paper off of the board dry. You can see in this pic that the toner bonded well. But it looks like it took the gloss off of the paper and stuck it to the copper on the upper transfer. The lower transfer is scratched since I used Scotchbrite and water to remove the gloss residue. I swear this laminator acts like it's too hot. I need to measure the temp of my old clothes iron so I have a reference.
> >
> > http://rotordesign. com/pcb/HPpresen tation.jpg
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@ yahoogroups. com, "Mike Phillips" <mikep_95133@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > My thermocouple reads very close to the digital thermometer.
> > >
> > > I went to Staples and asked about returning paper that I don't like. They said yes. So I bought Hammermill Color Laser Gloss and HP Glossy Laser Presentation Paper 130g. The first thing I did was put the Hammermill in some water to make sure it's not water proof. It softens up but does not dissolve. It has gloss on both sides to I ran it with a plain sheet of paper covering the glossy side to keep the rollers from getting mucked up. So I printed out my boards and ran the sandwich through the laminator 4 times. The Hammermill paper is not sticking to the copper. That's good news. The toner is sticking somewhat. This is where it looks like I need more heat to get the toner to stick better. So as soon as this laminator cools off I'll open it up and look for the temp adjust pot and increase it.
> > >
> > > I'll run the Presentation paper through as well.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@ yahoogroups. com, "sailingto" <sailingto@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hmmmmm 294F - that's a bit cooler than most toner transfers. Of course it depends on what toner your printer has. The newer Brother series of printers use abotu 400F toner, but the "normal" toner is usually a bit over 300F.
> > > >
> > > > If you are showning only 300F at the inlet/outlet I'll bet it gets warmer inside - and it depends on the type of temperature control your lamanitor has. On my laminator the temperature will go up to around 330F to 340F, then turn off, cool down to around 280F or so, then turn back on to heat up again.
> > > >
> > > > Using a HP P1006 printer (OEM toner) I tend to get a good toner transfer up around 360F or better. I turn laminator on, allow to heat up to around 370 to 380F, do a quick run thru 4 or 5 times and the toner has transferred pretty good. If I allow the temperature to get too hot (over 400F?) the traces come out looks sorta "mashed" a bit, not the crisp eadges they should be.
> > > >
> > > > You might check the calibration of the themrometer by boiling a pan of water and checking the temperature. At sea level this WILL be at 212F. If you are at 10,000 ft elevation you will need to correct for that as the temperature is lower to boil water.
> > > >
> > > > Keep us informed on your progress - and remember, anything I post is open to correction/comments .
> > > >
> > > > Ken H>
> > > >
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@ yahoogroups. com, "Mike Phillips" <mikep_95133@ > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The thermometer stabilized at 294F. Too cold? Too Hot?
> > > > >
> > > > > I checked it 2 places on the input side of the rollers.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > >
> > >
> >
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