Josh,
It's a GMP Mr. PHOTO-230TC. However, this particular one is already some
years old, and I have no idea wether it's still available and if it was
ever available in the area where you live. The all important factor is
that the pressure of the rolls itself can be ENVENLY adjusted. Usually
this is the case through the mounting screws of the rolls which usually
press a feather per screw which in turn applies the pressure to the
rolls. The other thing is that you usually have to open the case of the
laminator in order to make the entry/exit free for the 1.5mm PCB
material. As mentioned in my previous post, laminate does not need very
high temperature so the other important factor is that the laminator is
able to heat the rolls EVENLY to the propper, relatively low
temperature. I never measured it on mine, but it's only a tad above the
the lowest setting it is having. The other laminator I used bevore this
one also gave not as consistent results and I thus changed it. The MR.
PHOTO I'm using is also having compareably thick rolls, maybe another
factor.... The problem with this kind of equipement is that since it's
mass market, you never can be sure to buy the same model again after
even a relatively short amount of time. I'm too scared from the moment
in time where mine may will stop to work some hopefully very distant day
in the future.
What I can say though is that with this laminator I do not have to apply
the film "wet" as Adam and others aparently do it and that I do not end
up with boubles etc. On the other hand theres is also nothing to correct
once the laminate is applied. It either works, or it's a failure with no
other option to correct it than stripping it off and reapply fresh
laminate. However, with the Mr. PHOTO thingy, I only have very rare
cases where it does not work (say once out of 50 or better).
The smallest trace width I can regularly do is 4mils with this setup.
This of course also requieres that the other steps (exposure and
etching) are optimized. IMHO the type of laminate also dictates the
minimum resolution you can achive. This is a function of the thikness of
the laminate itself if I'm not mistaken and the behaviour during
exposure etc. etc.
HTH
Markus
joshdewinter schrieb:
>
> Hi Markus and all
>
> I tried and tried tonight to make this work. I even tried the dual
> layer of Riston technique, but I just can't seem to ever get it on
> the board without some kind of imperfection that screws up the
> traces in that area.
>
> Markus, can you tell us what brand and model your laminator is? I
> think you (and others who said so) are probably right on the money
> in that my laminator just doesn't have enough room between the
> rollers. It's got a temp adjust, which is nice, but I hear a "chunk
> chunk chunk" sound, which sounds like gears slipping, probably
> because there just isn't enough clearance in there.
>
> I also noticed very fine squares on the pcb copper layer itself that
> were causing some of the lines in the film. A friend noted that
> these are the fiberglass underlayer's telegraphing through from
> beneath. I got an electric sander, and used 250 then 500 grit paper
> to smooth them out.
>
> I found that I could use a hair dryer to pre-heat the film once
> applied, and push on it with my fingers in rubber gloves and get it
> to bond a little better. It wasn't hot enough to cure it, but if I
> then placed it on a clothes iron for about 5 seconds on the low
> setting - just enough to heat but not make it boil - that would cure
> it.
>
> Still trying....frustrated...but trying.
>
> -Josh
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, Markus Zingg <homebrew-
> pcb@...> wrote:
> >
> > Josh,
> >
> > I don't know your particular film as I'm using a different product
> > (Ordyl Alpha 900). However, the one I use is also pickey. I posted
> some
> > pics to the forum a while ago showing how I feed the laminator to
> avoid
> > bubbles. From what it sounds however I have the impression that
> the
> > particular laminator you are using is just too hot even in it's
> lowest
> > setting. The other thing is the applied pressure during
> lamination. My
> > solution was to try several different laminators and I ended up
> using
> > one where I was able to adjust the pressure of the rolls with
> screws
> > (had to loosen them quite a bit) and one that also works with
> pretty low
> > temperature setting. It took quite some experimentation to find
> the
> > propper setting but overall, off the shelf laminators apply too
> much
> > pressure and usually also are too hot.
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > Markus
> >
> > joshdewinter schrieb:
> > >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > MG Chemicals now sells a "Negative Photoresist Film" (product
> #416-
> > > DFR5) that I believe may be Riston.
> > >
> > > I have tried it several times now with mediocre results. The
> > > traces turn out good when they turn out. The problem I'm getting
> is
> > > actually getting the film to stick to the board uniformly before
> > > exposure.
> > >
> > > Someone suggested using water between the board and the film to
> > > allow rolling of any bubbles out from underneath with your thumb
> > > after positioning, then drying it in an oven at about 200
> degrees for
> > > 10 min to get it to stick.
> > >
> > > They were right, it worked great...until I tried to dry it. Small
> > > mutations formed, sometimes in the form of lines, sometimes what
> look
> > > like small blobs. They aren't bubbles per se, but somehow there
> are
> > > areas of the film that appear to stick to the board at a deeper
> level
> > > than the surrounding film, or maybe they are melting and
> deforming.
> > >
> > > The manufacturer recommends using a laminator to apply the film,
> > > which I tried initially, but it appears to have the same
> problem. My
> > > laminator is adjustable heat, and I've tried from hi to low with
> > > similar results. I haven't as yet put the board between any
> > > protective sheets when laminating like you might to laminate
> paper
> > > items...I'm going to try that next (the manufacturer never
> > > specifically said to do it).
> > >
> > > Here are their instructions:
> > >
> > > http://www.mgchemicals.com/techsupport/416dfr_inst.html
> <http://www.mgchemicals.com/techsupport/416dfr_inst.html>
> > > <http://www.mgchemicals.com/techsupport/416dfr_inst.html
> <http://www.mgchemicals.com/techsupport/416dfr_inst.html>>
> > >
> > > I clean the board ahead of time with steel wool, alcohol and
> > > acetone. I am using clean gloves throughout.
> > >
> > > Can anyone help me with any tricks to get this stuff to adhere
> > > uniformly?
> > >
> > > Thank you so much in advance!
> > >
> > > -Josh
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>