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I've always shipped my custom 'all digital since 1984' synths with Railsback as one of the tuning options. I know that it has definitely been used on several film scores.</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org> on behalf of rburnett@richieburnett.co.uk <rburnett@richieburnett.co.uk><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 04 January 2025 20:22<br>
<b>To:</b> Ben Stuyts <ben@stuyts.nl><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Synth DIY <synth-diy@synth-diy.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sdiy] Interesting article on top octave generators.</span>
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<div style="font-size: 11pt;">Perhaps so that it doesn't sound out of tune at the top end when played<br>
alongside a real piano that's been tuned according to the Railsback<br>
curve.<br>
<br>
-Richie,<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2025-01-04 19:16, Ben Stuyts via Synth-diy wrote:<br>
> Thanks for the insight, Don, I did not know that was the reason for<br>
> it.<br>
><br>
> But why would stretch-tuning (as Roman says) be an option on synths<br>
> like the P6? The harmonics there would always be integer multiples<br>
> from the fundamental and there would not be any inharmonicity. That<br>
> would only make sense if it sounds somehow ‘good’ to our ears.<br>
> Which is more or less what the Rhodes manual says. Or is this purely<br>
> to compensate for some flattening at the high end because of flaws in<br>
> the VCO circuitry?<br>
><br>
> Ben<br>
><br>
>> On 4 Jan 2025, at 19:05, Donald Tillman <don@till.com> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> That quote from the manual is misleading.<br>
>><br>
>> In string instruments the harmonics of the note run slightly sharp.<br>
>> This is because the endpoints are a little less flexible than the<br>
>> rest of the string. Just plug an electric guitar into an<br>
>> oscilloscope and it's pretty easy to see the harmonic frequencies<br>
>> scooting to the left of the fundamental.<br>
>><br>
>> So pianos are stretch tuned so that, if you're playing octaves, the<br>
>> harmonics of the lower notes are in tune with the fundamentals of<br>
>> the higher notes. The amount of stretch depends on the string<br>
>> length, tension, and physical characteristics, so each instrument<br>
>> model is different, and so traditionally they come with a chart like<br>
>> that.<br>
>><br>
>> And the effect is similar for electric pianos with tines (Rhodes) or<br>
>> reeds (Wurlitzer). But not for organs.<br>
>><br>
>> So stretch tuning in the synth world would only make sense if you<br>
>> could generate slightly sharp harmonics. Other than physical<br>
>> modeling, say a Karplus-Strong model tweaked for less flexibility at<br>
>> the endpoints, I don't see how that would work.<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stretched_tuning" id="OWA00a59973-bc81-33ec-a547-66e1bea6d716" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stretched_tuning</a><br>
>><br>
>> -- Don<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Donald Tillman, Palo Alto, California<br>
>> <a href="https://till.com" id="OWA1fcb5c93-c201-3304-5c6f-06face2bb948" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">
https://till.com</a><br>
>><br>
>>> On Jan 4, 2025, at 9:09 AM, Ben Stuyts via Synth-diy<br>
>>> <synth-diy@synth-diy.org> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> All this discussion about tuning and temperaments reminded me of<br>
>>> the Fender Rhodes service manual, where they take a dive into<br>
>>> stretch-tuning. See<br>
>>> <a href="https://www.fenderrhodes.com/org/manual/ch5.html#5-3" id="OWA187f688d-ef8f-aa82-3c66-6675ffc0f41b" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">
https://www.fenderrhodes.com/org/manual/ch5.html#5-3</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> Quote: "Stretch tuning is a procedure widely followed by the piano<br>
>>> tuning profession. It recognizes a phenomenon of the human ear<br>
>>> whereby tones in the upper range of a keyboard will sound "flat"<br>
>>> even though they are calibrated with extreme precision.<br>
>>> Fortunately for all, a consensus has long since been agreed upon<br>
>>> as to the exact amount of stretching. A piano so tuned creates the<br>
>>> impression of great tonal brilliance."<br>
>>><br>
>>> With this chart:<br>
>>><br>
>>> <Stretch Tuning Chart.jpeg><br>
>>><br>
>>> This obviously can never be done with the divide by 2 approach.<br>
>>><br>
>>> But are there any analog VCO’s (or synths) that actually<br>
>>> implement some sort of stretch tuning? (Aside from the unwanted<br>
>>> flattening in the high end which is opposite from stretch tuning.)<br>
>>><br>
>>> Ben<br>
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