<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Dec 8, 2024, at 1:15 PM, Chris McDowell via Synth-diy <synth-diy@synth-diy.org> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div>Falling saw vs a rising ramp, is the difference audible? What is the definitive answer? I have believed for years that the difference is not audible, that maximum disconinuity followed by minimum discontinuity is what a saw or ramp is, and inverted but otherwise identical waveforms sound identical. I came across a wealth of traffic online today arguing against that. I'm super skeptical. Folks' arguments were passionate but not complete in a way that could convince me. What is the real deal here? </div></blockquote></div></blockquote><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Dec 8, 2024, at 2:43 PM, Donald Tillman <don@till.com> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div>Note that a sawtooth ramping down has all the harmonics in phase with the fundamental.</div><div><br></div><div>And a sawtooth ramping up has its harmonics alternating in phase (+1, -1/2, +1/3, -1/4,...) from the fundamental.</div><div><br></div><div>So when you want to combine a sawtooth with, say, a square wave, one will make an awful lot more intuitive sense than the other. This is extremely important to people, like myself, who combine waveforms a lot. </div></div></div></blockquote><br></div><div><div>On the other hand... If you are *not* going to be combining it with any other signals...</div><div><br></div><div>A sawtooth on its own is pretty much unlistenable. The whole point of a sawtooth is to provide lots of harmonic content for low-pass filters to sculpt the timbre. Ie., subtractive synthesis. And in that situation, the filters are almost entirely responsible for the musicality of the sound.</div><div><br></div><div>This is consistent with the phrase, "the heart of a synthesizer is in the filter", which has been said in one form or another for half a century.</div><div><br></div><div>And just like any form of subtractive sculpture, such as woodcarving, the original block of wood is unimportant compared to artistic work of the woodcarver.</div></div><div><div><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div><br> -- Don<br>--<br>Donald Tillman, Palo Alto, California<br>https://till.com</div></div></div></div><div><br></div></div></body></html>