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    <p>It really depends on what you want. A lot of time I do what you
      do and that is just through a circuit into LTSpice and see what it
      does verses sit down and figure out the math. Also you understand
      the fact that this is a simulation and might or might not give
      accurate results. Lots of noobs go 'I simulated something and the
      circuit worked but the implementation doesn't' and wonder why.<br>
    </p>
    <p>I did contract HW/SW and one of the places I worked there were
      senior EEs doing Spice simulations of circuits going from 5 to 30
      GHz. These were real simulations actually writing Spice code to
      get things close to being functional before prototyping.  That was
      beyond rocket science for me.</p>
    <p>Jay S.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/16/2024 1:29 PM, Tom Wiltshire
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:3B9C6FB4-1460-4C6B-B10B-69A1CACC923C@electricdruid.net">
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      Maybe I'm a newb, but I don't agree about "more than likely add
      your own models". There's a lot of useful stuff you can do in
      LTspice without going near making your own models.
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Perhaps we're just working towards different
        objectives? Mostly I use it for testing ideas instead of
        breadboarding, generating frequency responses for networks that
        would be a pain to work out manually, checking filter responses,
        that sort of stuff.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">I definitely don't think it's going to give me a
        perfect answer - the first time I got the ideal op-amp model to
        spin out to a 15KV output voltage firmly dissuaded me of that,
        and that's surprisingly easy to do. The concept of "op-amps with
        no supply rails" is pretty weird, if you're coming from a more
        practical background - and since it clearly leads to behaviour
        which is far from realistic, I did wonder a bit why they
        included them at all. Now I'm better at it, I know when I can
        use the basic models because it doesn't matter and when I need
        something that actually has a rail limit. So yes, I totally
        agree that you need some understanding of what the thing is
        doing and what you're looking at - but 15KV output is a
        give-away to *anyone*, right, newb or not?!?</div>
      <div class="">
        <div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
        </div>
        <div><br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">On 16 May 2024, at 19:58, Jay Schwichtenberg
              via Synth-diy <<a href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>>
              wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div class="">
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                content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
              <div class="">
                <p class="">I wouldn't recommend noobs using simulation
                  without them having some understanding of it. Main
                  reason without knowing how it works they assume that a
                  simulation is going to give you the perfect answer or
                  close to it.<br class="">
                </p>
                <p class="">To get good simulations you really need to
                  know what you are doing and more than likely make your
                  own models. A lot of the models for components are
                  simple and don't go into the details of the
                  components. So that can make a big difference in the
                  simulation.</p>
                <p class="">There are things like noise, power supply
                  ripple, transmission lines, PCB layout ... that you
                  have to manually add to get really good simulations
                  that they have no idea how to do.</p>
                <p class="">Jay S.</p>
                <p class=""><br class="">
                </p>
                <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/16/2024 11:21 AM,
                  Paulo Constantino via Synth-diy wrote:<br class="">
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAFBByKV3p5KD+AxFvd7X2jgAOA1eoNvOrVRCXTQM=QJhS9PQ0g@mail.gmail.com"
                  class="">
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                  <div dir="ltr" class="">
                    <div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small;color:#0b5394">What
                      about the Falstad simulator? It's the best for
                      quick and dirty sims!!!!!!!</div>
                  </div>
                  <br class="">
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, May 16,
                      2024 at 7:11 PM Chris McDowell via Synth-diy <<a
                        href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>>
                      wrote:<br class="">
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                      <div dir="auto" class="">Simulation, yeah! I learn
                        a ton from popping stuff into LTSpice and try
                        out anything new or novel there first. <br
id="m_4732428870818493596lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature" class="">
                        <div dir="ltr" class="">Cheers,
                          <div class="">Chris </div>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
                          <blockquote type="cite" class="">On May 16,
                            2024, at 8:21 AM, ben gebhardt via Synth-diy
                            <<a href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                              class="moz-txt-link-freetext">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>>
                            wrote:<br class="">
                            <br class="">
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                        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                          <div dir="ltr" class="">
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style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"
                              class="">
                              <div dir="ltr" class="">Not sure if
                                mentioned already, but I learn alot by
                                simulating circuits and then doing time
                                and frequency domain analysis.  </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
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                <br class="">
                <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAFBByKV3p5KD+AxFvd7X2jgAOA1eoNvOrVRCXTQM=QJhS9PQ0g@mail.gmail.com"
                  class="">
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                      <div dir="auto" class="">
                        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                          <div dir="ltr" class="">
                            <div
style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"
                              class="">
                              <div dir="ltr" class=""><span
                                style="white-space: pre-wrap" class="">______________________________________________________</span></div>
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