<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Simulation, yeah! I learn a ton from popping stuff into LTSpice and try out anything new or novel there first. <br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir="ltr">Cheers,<div>Chris </div></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On May 16, 2024, at 8:21 AM, ben gebhardt via Synth-diy <synth-diy@synth-diy.org> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="ydp245e4ecdyahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Not sure if mentioned already, but I learn alot by simulating circuits and then doing time and frequency domain analysis. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Agreed with redrawing circuits, this can help immensely.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">And, finally, a basic thing I do when visually assessing a circuit I've never seen before is to think about the 2 extreme cases where the input signal frequency is 0 and +inf. Capacitors will open or short in those cases (with a transition point at some frequency in between) and that can reveal alot about what a circuit does. Maybe that's too elementary for this group, but I still do this all the time.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Ben</div><div><br></div>
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On Thursday, May 16, 2024 at 05:35:08 AM EDT, Mike Bryant via Synth-diy <synth-diy@synth-diy.org> wrote:
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Oh boy do I remember the arguments at HP in the 70s when it was decided to add the dots and remove the jump-overs on schematics across the whole corporation.</div>
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<div id="yiv7691264512yqt08223" class="yiv7691264512yqt1481032058"><div dir="ltr" id="yiv7691264512divRplyFwdMsg"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Michael E Caloroso <mec.forumreader@gmail.com><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 16 May 2024 06:03<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Mike Bryant <mbryant@futurehorizons.com><br clear="none">
<b>Cc:</b> Sarah Thompson <plodger@gmail.com>; ackolonges fds via Synth-diy <synth-diy@synth-diy.org><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sdiy] Becoming better at understanding difficult analog schematics</span>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr;">Not a good idea to recommend Buchla schematics for student level EEs. Buchla did not place dots on junctions. You'd have to have a solid foundation of circuits to decipher those.</div>
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<div style="direction:ltr;">MC</div>
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<div style="direction:ltr;">On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 8:16 AM Mike Bryant <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWA8d2ba761-bf9c-3bf1-2001-f32a277e591a" ymailto="mailto:mbryant@futurehorizons.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mbryant@futurehorizons.com" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">mbryant@futurehorizons.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);">
<div style="direction:ltr;font-family:Aptos, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Those are exactly the types of circuits than production and test hate. Nice separate blocks with clearly defined inputs and outputs make their lives a lot easier. </div>
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<div dir="ltr" id="yiv7691264512x_m_6200096108810372745divRplyFwdMsg"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Sarah Thompson <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWA7b6cd283-cccf-90d4-0532-d2266f488c30" ymailto="mailto:plodger@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:plodger@gmail.com" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">plodger@gmail.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 13 May 2024 12:47<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Mike Bryant <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWA0fdecb8a-ff20-ab8d-7a73-b78af673ced9" ymailto="mailto:mbryant@futurehorizons.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mbryant@futurehorizons.com" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">mbryant@futurehorizons.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Cc:</b> Donald Tillman <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWAafb26324-61fb-53bc-a497-8bcabda1317c" ymailto="mailto:don@till.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:don@till.com" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">don@till.com</a>>; David G Dixon <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWAcbf50574-56ae-1dba-fe9e-1ddef7952273" ymailto="mailto:dixon@mail.ubc.ca" target="_blank" href="mailto:dixon@mail.ubc.ca" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">dixon@mail.ubc.ca</a>>;
ackolonges fds via Synth-diy <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWAa8d3c0af-e33b-6696-3c09-5bc56d295b3b" ymailto="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sdiy] Becoming better at understanding difficult analog schematics</span>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr;">Buchla schematics (at least the few I've seen) are fascinating. There is an incredible economy of design -- where many/most designers' circuits can easily be broken down into blocks that can be understood separately, with Buchla
circuits you'll see a weird resistor or capacitor (or something) that doesn't make sense until you really dig into it, and it turns out that the designer has merged the functionality of blocks together, or added something analogous to a fixed tone control
or something. Definitely from someone who liked to get their hands dirty at the bench!</div>
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<div style="direction:ltr;">On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 8:34 AM Mike Bryant <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWAa5b72b5c-956d-4975-713d-a130bb5693d4" ymailto="mailto:mbryant@futurehorizons.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mbryant@futurehorizons.com" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">mbryant@futurehorizons.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);">
<div style="direction:ltr;font-family:Aptos, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Maybe that's the real difference between East Coast and West Coast synthesis :-)</div>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Synth-diy <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWA18c25ae8-4f5c-d436-b26a-a50cd79292ed" ymailto="mailto:synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org</a>>
on behalf of Donald Tillman <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWA30ec9e4a-97a5-bd46-52e9-a36c64540996" ymailto="mailto:don@till.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:don@till.com" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">don@till.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 13 May 2024 08:20<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> David G Dixon <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWA2cda460b-101d-f0e0-828b-9ea0e65f17f2" ymailto="mailto:dixon@mail.ubc.ca" target="_blank" href="mailto:dixon@mail.ubc.ca" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">dixon@mail.ubc.ca</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Cc:</b> ackolonges fds via Synth-diy <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWAcf8cd153-1883-0648-a950-aec0f7db2304" ymailto="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sdiy] Becoming better at understanding difficult analog schematics</span>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr;font-size:11pt;">On May 12, 2024, at 10:43 PM, David G Dixon via Synth-diy <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWAba402c4d-38a8-3341-9c91-0b457df301f5" ymailto="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> I hear you, Paulo! I have a very hard time reading some schematics. One good example are Buchla schematics, which I find almost impossible to decipher.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I got no problem with them, man. :-)<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
-- Don<br clear="none">
--<br clear="none">
Donald Tillman, Palo Alto, California<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWA1541cbd7-4689-998a-3f12-6781579f4d08" target="_blank" href="https://www.till.com" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">https://www.till.com</a><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr" id="yiv7691264512divRplyFwdMsg"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Michael E Caloroso <mec.forumreader@gmail.com><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 16 May 2024 06:03<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Mike Bryant <mbryant@futurehorizons.com><br clear="none">
<b>Cc:</b> Sarah Thompson <plodger@gmail.com>; ackolonges fds via Synth-diy <synth-diy@synth-diy.org><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sdiy] Becoming better at understanding difficult analog schematics</span>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr;">Not a good idea to recommend Buchla schematics for student level EEs. Buchla did not place dots on junctions. You'd have to have a solid foundation of circuits to decipher those.</div>
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</div>
<div style="direction:ltr;">MC</div>
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<div style="direction:ltr;">On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 8:16 AM Mike Bryant <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWAab5b75c9-205f-d6c3-f80b-1f8db73f0155" ymailto="mailto:mbryant@futurehorizons.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mbryant@futurehorizons.com" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">mbryant@futurehorizons.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);">
<div style="direction:ltr;font-family:Aptos, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Those are exactly the types of circuits than production and test hate. Nice separate blocks with clearly defined inputs and outputs make their lives a lot easier. </div>
<div id="yiv7691264512x_m_6200096108810372745appendonsend"></div>
<hr style="direction:ltr;display:inline-block;width:98%;">
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv7691264512x_m_6200096108810372745divRplyFwdMsg"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Sarah Thompson <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWA6cc887a5-87eb-7a77-dc8e-35691f6e5ab3" ymailto="mailto:plodger@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:plodger@gmail.com" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">plodger@gmail.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 13 May 2024 12:47<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Mike Bryant <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWA6f8f7aef-65c0-3bb4-c960-d902bfe8b82c" ymailto="mailto:mbryant@futurehorizons.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mbryant@futurehorizons.com" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">mbryant@futurehorizons.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Cc:</b> Donald Tillman <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWA8c8f7307-6298-7007-bb3d-f666e4ca543b" ymailto="mailto:don@till.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:don@till.com" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">don@till.com</a>>; David G Dixon <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWA94302e1b-9af4-15ee-16a1-c33027f1339f" ymailto="mailto:dixon@mail.ubc.ca" target="_blank" href="mailto:dixon@mail.ubc.ca" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">dixon@mail.ubc.ca</a>>;
ackolonges fds via Synth-diy <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWAc3b86eb1-3c67-f0ac-0fbc-cd9946e2cbfc" ymailto="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sdiy] Becoming better at understanding difficult analog schematics</span>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr;">Buchla schematics (at least the few I've seen) are fascinating. There is an incredible economy of design -- where many/most designers' circuits can easily be broken down into blocks that can be understood separately, with Buchla
circuits you'll see a weird resistor or capacitor (or something) that doesn't make sense until you really dig into it, and it turns out that the designer has merged the functionality of blocks together, or added something analogous to a fixed tone control
or something. Definitely from someone who liked to get their hands dirty at the bench!</div>
<div style="direction:ltr;"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr;">On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 8:34 AM Mike Bryant <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWAe99210d8-1825-9522-ea34-478043da3038" ymailto="mailto:mbryant@futurehorizons.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mbryant@futurehorizons.com" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">mbryant@futurehorizons.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);">
<div style="direction:ltr;font-family:Aptos, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Maybe that's the real difference between East Coast and West Coast synthesis :-)</div>
<div id="yiv7691264512x_m_6200096108810372745x_m_-2820511104520569092appendonsend"></div>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Synth-diy <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWA517a8a1c-4a9a-fe25-c2dc-c7387adb0749" ymailto="mailto:synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org</a>>
on behalf of Donald Tillman <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWA095fa9f3-8b46-3e66-023b-1d7ef2c6017c" ymailto="mailto:don@till.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:don@till.com" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">don@till.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 13 May 2024 08:20<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> David G Dixon <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWA18bc4218-c818-16c6-6933-762224097b73" ymailto="mailto:dixon@mail.ubc.ca" target="_blank" href="mailto:dixon@mail.ubc.ca" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">dixon@mail.ubc.ca</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Cc:</b> ackolonges fds via Synth-diy <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWAf9fe0d95-3479-7e30-f121-8ff3b96597ef" ymailto="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sdiy] Becoming better at understanding difficult analog schematics</span>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr;font-size:11pt;">On May 12, 2024, at 10:43 PM, David G Dixon via Synth-diy <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="yiv7691264512OWAf44796ff-a45e-c87b-1f97-f53ac1dec142" ymailto="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" class="yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> I hear you, Paulo! I have a very hard time reading some schematics. One good example are Buchla schematics, which I find almost impossible to decipher.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I got no problem with them, man. :-)<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
-- Don<br clear="none">
--<br clear="none">
Donald Tillman, Palo Alto, California<br clear="none">
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