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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=027225418-16052024>Ditto. I simulate
everything in Multisim. I also use Multisim to draw my schematics,
straight from the simulation.</SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV dir=ltr lang=en-us class=OutlookMessageHeader align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> Synth-diy
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Chris McDowell via
Synth-diy<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 16, 2024 11:08 AM<BR><B>To:</B> ben
gebhardt<BR><B>Cc:</B> ackolonges fds via Synth-diy<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[sdiy] Becoming better at understanding difficult analog
schematics<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=auto>
<TABLE style="PADDING-LEFT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse">
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD><FONT
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 3px; LINE-HEIGHT: 1.6; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffecb3; FONT-STYLE: normal; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-RIGHT: 3px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial,sans-serif; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; PADDING-TOP: 3px">[<STRONG>CAUTION:</STRONG>
Non-UBC Email]</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Simulation, yeah! I learn a ton
from popping stuff into LTSpice and try out anything new or novel there
first. <BR id=x_lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature>
<DIV dir=ltr>Cheers,
<DIV>Chris </DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">On May 16, 2024, at 8:21 AM, ben gebhardt via
Synth-diy <synth-diy@synth-diy.org> wrote:<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px"
class=x_ydp245e4ecdyahoo-style-wrap>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Not sure if mentioned already, but I learn alot by simulating
circuits and then doing time and frequency domain analysis. </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Agreed with redrawing circuits, this can help immensely.</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>And, finally, a basic thing I do when visually assessing a
circuit I've never seen before is to think about the 2 extreme cases where the
input signal frequency is 0 and +inf. Capacitors will open or short in
those cases (with a transition point at some frequency in between) and that
can reveal alot about what a circuit does. Maybe that's too elementary
for this group, but I still do this all the time.</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Ben</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=x_yahoo_quoted_6429097328 class=x_yahoo_quoted>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 13px">
<DIV>On Thursday, May 16, 2024 at 05:35:08 AM EDT, Mike Bryant via Synth-diy
<synth-diy@synth-diy.org> wrote: </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV id=x_yiv7691264512>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: Aptos,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
class=x_yiv7691264512elementToProof>Oh boy do I remember the arguments at HP
in the 70s when it was decided to add the dots and remove the jump-overs on
schematics across the whole corporation.</DIV>
<DIV id=x_yiv7691264512appendonsend></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: Aptos,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR
clear=none></DIV>
<HR style="WIDTH: 98%; DISPLAY: inline-block">
<DIV id=x_yiv7691264512yqt08223 class=x_yiv7691264512yqt1481032058>
<DIV dir=ltr id=x_yiv7691264512divRplyFwdMsg><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><B>From:</B> Michael
E Caloroso <mec.forumreader@gmail.com><BR
clear=none><B>Sent:</B> 16 May 2024 06:03<BR
clear=none><B>To:</B> Mike Bryant <mbryant@futurehorizons.com><BR
clear=none><B>Cc:</B> Sarah Thompson <plodger@gmail.com>;
ackolonges fds via Synth-diy <synth-diy@synth-diy.org><BR
clear=none><B>Subject:</B> Re: [sdiy] Becoming better at understanding
difficult analog schematics</SPAN>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr">Not a good idea to recommend Buchla
schematics for student level EEs. Buchla did not place dots on
junctions. You'd have to have a solid foundation of circuits to decipher
those.</DIV>
<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr"><BR clear=none></DIV>
<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr">MC</DIV><BR clear=none>
<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr">On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 8:16 AM Mike Bryant <<A
id=x_yiv7691264512OWA8d2ba761-bf9c-3bf1-2001-f32a277e591a
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:mbryant@futurehorizons.com"
shape=rect rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
target=_blank>mbryant@futurehorizons.com</A>> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: Aptos,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Those
are exactly the types of circuits than production and test hate. Nice
separate blocks with clearly defined inputs and outputs make their lives a
lot easier. </DIV>
<DIV id=x_yiv7691264512x_m_6200096108810372745appendonsend></DIV>
<HR style="WIDTH: 98%; DISPLAY: inline-block; DIRECTION: ltr">
<DIV dir=ltr id=x_yiv7691264512x_m_6200096108810372745divRplyFwdMsg><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><B>From:</B> Sarah
Thompson <<A id=x_yiv7691264512OWA7b6cd283-cccf-90d4-0532-d2266f488c30
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:plodger@gmail.com" shape=rect
rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
target=_blank>plodger@gmail.com</A>><BR clear=none><B>Sent:</B> 13
May 2024 12:47<BR clear=none><B>To:</B> Mike Bryant <<A
id=x_yiv7691264512OWA0fdecb8a-ff20-ab8d-7a73-b78af673ced9
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:mbryant@futurehorizons.com"
shape=rect rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
target=_blank>mbryant@futurehorizons.com</A>><BR
clear=none><B>Cc:</B> Donald Tillman <<A
id=x_yiv7691264512OWAafb26324-61fb-53bc-a497-8bcabda1317c
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:don@till.com" shape=rect
rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=_blank>don@till.com</A>>; David
G Dixon <<A id=x_yiv7691264512OWAcbf50574-56ae-1dba-fe9e-1ddef7952273
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:dixon@mail.ubc.ca" shape=rect
rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=_blank>dixon@mail.ubc.ca</A>>;
ackolonges fds via Synth-diy <<A
id=x_yiv7691264512OWAa8d3c0af-e33b-6696-3c09-5bc56d295b3b
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org"
shape=rect rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
target=_blank>synth-diy@synth-diy.org</A>><BR
clear=none><B>Subject:</B> Re: [sdiy] Becoming better at understanding
difficult analog schematics</SPAN>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr">Buchla schematics (at least the few I've seen)
are fascinating. There is an incredible economy of design -- where many/most
designers' circuits can easily be broken down into blocks that can be
understood separately, with Buchla circuits you'll see a weird resistor or
capacitor (or something) that doesn't make sense until you really dig into
it, and it turns out that the designer has merged the functionality of
blocks together, or added something analogous to a fixed tone control
or something. Definitely from someone who liked to get their hands dirty at
the bench!</DIV>
<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr"><BR clear=none></DIV>
<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr">On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 8:34 AM Mike Bryant
<<A id=x_yiv7691264512OWAa5b72b5c-956d-4975-713d-a130bb5693d4
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:mbryant@futurehorizons.com"
shape=rect rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
target=_blank>mbryant@futurehorizons.com</A>> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: Aptos,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Maybe
that's the real difference between East Coast and West Coast synthesis
:-)</DIV>
<DIV
id=x_yiv7691264512x_m_6200096108810372745x_m_-2820511104520569092appendonsend></DIV>
<HR style="WIDTH: 98%; DISPLAY: inline-block; DIRECTION: ltr">
<DIV dir=ltr
id=x_yiv7691264512x_m_6200096108810372745x_m_-2820511104520569092divRplyFwdMsg><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><B>From:</B> Synth-diy
<<A id=x_yiv7691264512OWA18c25ae8-4f5c-d436-b26a-a50cd79292ed
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink
href="mailto:synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org" shape=rect
rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
target=_blank>synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org</A>> on behalf of Donald
Tillman <<A id=x_yiv7691264512OWA30ec9e4a-97a5-bd46-52e9-a36c64540996
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:don@till.com" shape=rect
rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=_blank>don@till.com</A>><BR
clear=none><B>Sent:</B> 13 May 2024 08:20<BR
clear=none><B>To:</B> David G Dixon <<A
id=x_yiv7691264512OWA2cda460b-101d-f0e0-828b-9ea0e65f17f2
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:dixon@mail.ubc.ca"
shape=rect rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
target=_blank>dixon@mail.ubc.ca</A>><BR
clear=none><B>Cc:</B> ackolonges fds via Synth-diy <<A
id=x_yiv7691264512OWAcf8cd153-1883-0648-a950-aec0f7db2304
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org"
shape=rect rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
target=_blank>synth-diy@synth-diy.org</A>><BR
clear=none><B>Subject:</B> Re: [sdiy] Becoming better at
understanding difficult analog schematics</SPAN>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">On May 12, 2024, at 10:43 PM,
David G Dixon via Synth-diy <<A
id=x_yiv7691264512OWAba402c4d-38a8-3341-9c91-0b457df301f5
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org"
shape=rect rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
target=_blank>synth-diy@synth-diy.org</A>> wrote:<BR clear=none>><BR
clear=none>> I hear you, Paulo! I have a very hard time reading
some schematics. One good example are Buchla schematics, which I
find almost impossible to decipher.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>I got no
problem with them, man. :-)<BR clear=none><BR clear=none> --
Don<BR clear=none>--<BR clear=none>Donald Tillman, Palo Alto,
California<BR clear=none><A
id=x_yiv7691264512OWA1541cbd7-4689-998a-3f12-6781579f4d08
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="https://www.till.com" shape=rect
rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
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<DIV
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<DIV dir=ltr id=x_yiv7691264512divRplyFwdMsg><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><B>From:</B> Michael
E Caloroso <mec.forumreader@gmail.com><BR
clear=none><B>Sent:</B> 16 May 2024 06:03<BR
clear=none><B>To:</B> Mike Bryant <mbryant@futurehorizons.com><BR
clear=none><B>Cc:</B> Sarah Thompson <plodger@gmail.com>;
ackolonges fds via Synth-diy <synth-diy@synth-diy.org><BR
clear=none><B>Subject:</B> Re: [sdiy] Becoming better at understanding
difficult analog schematics</SPAN>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr">Not a good idea to recommend Buchla
schematics for student level EEs. Buchla did not place dots on
junctions. You'd have to have a solid foundation of circuits to decipher
those.</DIV>
<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr"><BR clear=none></DIV>
<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr">MC</DIV><BR clear=none>
<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr">On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 8:16 AM Mike Bryant <<A
id=x_yiv7691264512OWAab5b75c9-205f-d6c3-f80b-1f8db73f0155
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:mbryant@futurehorizons.com"
shape=rect rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
target=_blank>mbryant@futurehorizons.com</A>> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: Aptos,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Those
are exactly the types of circuits than production and test hate. Nice
separate blocks with clearly defined inputs and outputs make their lives a
lot easier. </DIV>
<DIV id=x_yiv7691264512x_m_6200096108810372745appendonsend></DIV>
<HR style="WIDTH: 98%; DISPLAY: inline-block; DIRECTION: ltr">
<DIV dir=ltr id=x_yiv7691264512x_m_6200096108810372745divRplyFwdMsg><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><B>From:</B> Sarah
Thompson <<A id=x_yiv7691264512OWA6cc887a5-87eb-7a77-dc8e-35691f6e5ab3
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:plodger@gmail.com" shape=rect
rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
target=_blank>plodger@gmail.com</A>><BR clear=none><B>Sent:</B> 13
May 2024 12:47<BR clear=none><B>To:</B> Mike Bryant <<A
id=x_yiv7691264512OWA6f8f7aef-65c0-3bb4-c960-d902bfe8b82c
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:mbryant@futurehorizons.com"
shape=rect rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
target=_blank>mbryant@futurehorizons.com</A>><BR
clear=none><B>Cc:</B> Donald Tillman <<A
id=x_yiv7691264512OWA8c8f7307-6298-7007-bb3d-f666e4ca543b
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:don@till.com" shape=rect
rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=_blank>don@till.com</A>>; David
G Dixon <<A id=x_yiv7691264512OWA94302e1b-9af4-15ee-16a1-c33027f1339f
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:dixon@mail.ubc.ca" shape=rect
rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=_blank>dixon@mail.ubc.ca</A>>;
ackolonges fds via Synth-diy <<A
id=x_yiv7691264512OWAc3b86eb1-3c67-f0ac-0fbc-cd9946e2cbfc
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org"
shape=rect rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
target=_blank>synth-diy@synth-diy.org</A>><BR
clear=none><B>Subject:</B> Re: [sdiy] Becoming better at understanding
difficult analog schematics</SPAN>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr">Buchla schematics (at least the few I've seen)
are fascinating. There is an incredible economy of design -- where many/most
designers' circuits can easily be broken down into blocks that can be
understood separately, with Buchla circuits you'll see a weird resistor or
capacitor (or something) that doesn't make sense until you really dig into
it, and it turns out that the designer has merged the functionality of
blocks together, or added something analogous to a fixed tone control
or something. Definitely from someone who liked to get their hands dirty at
the bench!</DIV>
<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr"><BR clear=none></DIV>
<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr">On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 8:34 AM Mike Bryant
<<A id=x_yiv7691264512OWAe99210d8-1825-9522-ea34-478043da3038
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:mbryant@futurehorizons.com"
shape=rect rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
target=_blank>mbryant@futurehorizons.com</A>> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: Aptos,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Maybe
that's the real difference between East Coast and West Coast synthesis
:-)</DIV>
<DIV
id=x_yiv7691264512x_m_6200096108810372745x_m_-2820511104520569092appendonsend></DIV>
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id=x_yiv7691264512x_m_6200096108810372745x_m_-2820511104520569092divRplyFwdMsg><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><B>From:</B> Synth-diy
<<A id=x_yiv7691264512OWA517a8a1c-4a9a-fe25-c2dc-c7387adb0749
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink
href="mailto:synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org" shape=rect
rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
target=_blank>synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org</A>> on behalf of Donald
Tillman <<A id=x_yiv7691264512OWA095fa9f3-8b46-3e66-023b-1d7ef2c6017c
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:don@till.com" shape=rect
rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=_blank>don@till.com</A>><BR
clear=none><B>Sent:</B> 13 May 2024 08:20<BR
clear=none><B>To:</B> David G Dixon <<A
id=x_yiv7691264512OWA18bc4218-c818-16c6-6933-762224097b73
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:dixon@mail.ubc.ca"
shape=rect rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
target=_blank>dixon@mail.ubc.ca</A>><BR
clear=none><B>Cc:</B> ackolonges fds via Synth-diy <<A
id=x_yiv7691264512OWAf9fe0d95-3479-7e30-f121-8ff3b96597ef
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org"
shape=rect rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
target=_blank>synth-diy@synth-diy.org</A>><BR
clear=none><B>Subject:</B> Re: [sdiy] Becoming better at
understanding difficult analog schematics</SPAN>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">On May 12, 2024, at 10:43 PM,
David G Dixon via Synth-diy <<A
id=x_yiv7691264512OWAf44796ff-a45e-c87b-1f97-f53ac1dec142
class=x_yiv7691264512OWAAutoLink href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org"
shape=rect rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
target=_blank>synth-diy@synth-diy.org</A>> wrote:<BR clear=none>><BR
clear=none>> I hear you, Paulo! I have a very hard time reading
some schematics. One good example are Buchla schematics, which I
find almost impossible to decipher.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>I got no
problem with them, man. :-)<BR clear=none><BR clear=none> --
Don<BR clear=none>--<BR clear=none>Donald Tillman, Palo Alto,
California<BR clear=none><A
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