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<font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="ContentPasted0">> There are literally loads of products on sale in the UK that break this rule though.
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<font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="ContentPasted0">Oh boy tell me about it ! That's the problem with us adopting IEC regulations whilst trying to maintain the safest electrical system in the world. The class Y capacitor is one of the worst
inventions mankind ever made !<br>
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<font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="ContentPasted0">The rule of thumb used to be that class 2 products had to be less than 65W but that seems to have been gradually ignored.
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<font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="ContentPasted0">Also the UK always had the 0.75mA maximum leakage which you couldn't feel, but to keep with world standards has accepted the 5mA leakage which as you say you most definitely can feel.</span></font></div>
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<font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="ContentPasted0">I would not expect any leakage to the lamp as there is no need to connect any supply to the metalwork so that would be double insulated and have always been legal.<br>
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<font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="ContentPasted0">The laptop exhibits the problem trading standards have. It is legal to feel the 5mA through the USB because it's not a regular touching point, but you shouldn't really be feeling it through
the anodised case. To my mind that's still a failure so it would be interesting to hear what trading standards think. Neither were<span style="font-size:12pt;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="ContentPasted0 ContentPasted1">
legal pre the new 2020 regs, and companies are already taking liberties with it. In fact I suspect the only reason we did accept the 5mA limit is because so much stuff was already on the market.</span></font></span> Trading standards have been confiscating
high power electric scooters and similar with high powered class 2 chargers and metal handlebars, but one suspects that is only because the importers haven't the legal muscle of a Toshiba.<br>
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<font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="ContentPasted0">The other issue is that the laptop is deemed consumer, whereas PCs are deemed IT and even the IEC accepts that they should be grounded, at least for now. They have a large document dictating
how to earth IT racks for example and if you rack audio equipment (as in a modular synth) then that standard applies.<br>
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<font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="ContentPasted0">The problem is what the RoW deems safe, we historically haven't. Only us (and countries that copy our regs) have fused plugs (again relaxed for low power items against many people's better
judgement), shuttered sockets, redundancy in the mains wiring, and an enforced distinction between line and neutral with neutral rigidly connected to ground. If you look at an older house you still often see the grounding wires that used to be on every radiator,
then relaxed to just bathrooms, and now non-existent. Unfortunately politicians haven't been willing to draw a line in the sand with the IEC regs so standards have dropped and more and more crap gets imported.<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="elementToProof" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org> on behalf of rburnett@richieburnett.co.uk <rburnett@richieburnett.co.uk><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 20 February 2023 10:06<br>
<b>To:</b> A.M. Barrio via Synth-diy <synth-diy@synth-diy.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sdiy] Signals leaking into the PSU?</font>
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<div class="PlainText">> ....As I said, in the<br>
> UK, exposed metal chassis must be connected to the mains earth. You<br>
> can choose to isolate all the electronics from it if you wish...<br>
<br>
There are literally loads of products on sale in the UK that break this <br>
rule though. Right now I have an anglepoise lamp and a free standing <br>
Ikea lamp next to me that both have a significant metal "chassis" but <br>
are marked as class-2. There is no connection from mains earth to the <br>
metal parts, (there can't be because they only used 2 core cable to the <br>
plug!) I also have an LG DVD player here that has a metal case but is <br>
marked class-2 with no earth bonding to the case and a captive 2-core <br>
mains cable. Also I have a Toshiba work laptop with aluminium <br>
"cladding" over the back of the screen which is fed by a Class-2 <br>
supply/charger. You can clearly feel the "buzz" of the electricity on <br>
the aluminium cover if you run your fingers over it when it is plugged <br>
into the charger!<br>
<br>
> Also if you perform live music, hold conferences with your own AV, or<br>
> so on, the location's house electrician is supposed to check the<br>
> chassis grounds on all your equipment are in place before he turns on<br>
> the three-phase.<br>
<br>
It causes all sorts of fun when Class-2 appliances meet Class-1 <br>
appliances in larger setups. For instance connecting a class-2 laptop <br>
or DVD player to a Class-1 (earthed) TV results in some tiny but pretty <br>
impressive sparks between the audio/video connectors when they come <br>
together. It also hurts if you do this connection with the power on and <br>
manage to get your finger across the gap! (>.<)<br>
<br>
> That may be true under the US regulations, but doesn't meet the<br>
> current UK IET interpretation of a Class 2 FE device where the whole<br>
> system is PAT tested, not the individual item. You can use a<br>
> wall-wart provided the item doesn't expose the output voltage across a<br>
> major surface, for example a laptop can have USB sockets with up to<br>
> 5mA of leakage (which I personally think is too high - the old 0.75mA<br>
> limit was met by most equipment), but the case should be plastic or<br>
> double insulated metal.<br>
<br>
The Toshiba laptop clearly breaks this rule. Aluminium plate appears to <br>
be anodised but you can still feel the electricity and get a meter <br>
reading of about 120VAC to ground! Same on the USB surrounds.<br>
<br>
-Richie,<br>
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