<div dir="ltr">I looked at JM's website and my brain just melted. And it's not a language barrier.<br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 12:24 PM Mike Bryant <<a href="mailto:mbryant@futurehorizons.com">mbryant@futurehorizons.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-GB">
<div class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633WordSection1">
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">Well I just picked one at random and immediately hit the fundamental problem with European manufacturing.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">"We constantly work at least two shifts, often 6 days a week."<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">Chinese companies work 24/7, so a product moves through the factory at a constant rate with no stops, except at the three annual holiday periods when all maintenance is performed. You can see this from the times on my latest PCB as
shown below. The product flows through smoothly.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">As it takes the same time to fly something from China to Heathrow as from anywhere in Europe, with a product that takes say 2 weeks to go through from order to delivery, you’ve got to add over a week extra at a European plant, which
is time lost on a product schedule.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">I remember having this discussion with a UK blank PCB manufacturer over 20 years ago. They were reasonably priced for full production on a planned 4 week delivery and we ordered vast areas from them, but for prototype and pilot runs
they added huge (>400%) markups to supply PCBs on 3-7 days. I queried this and was told they did prototypes ‘out of hours’ so had to pay people overtime to do it. So I ordered from China, far more difficult and unusual to do back then, and it arrived 10
days later.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">MI <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">2021-10-25 16:07:04<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
</span><u></u><img src="cid:17cc6a0098a4cff311" alt="Description: https://jlcpcb.com/client/svg/after_icon.svg" width="80" height="80"><u></u><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Inner Layer
</span><u></u><img src="cid:17cc6a0098a4cff311" alt="Description: https://jlcpcb.com/client/svg/play_icon.svg" width="80" height="80"><u></u><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">2021-10-26 03:38:20<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
</span><u></u><img src="cid:17cc6a0098a4cff311" alt="Description: https://jlcpcb.com/client/svg/after_icon.svg" width="80" height="80"><u></u><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Lamination
</span><u></u><img src="cid:17cc6a0098a4cff311" alt="Description: https://jlcpcb.com/client/svg/play_icon.svg" width="80" height="80"><u></u><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">2021-10-26 11:44:04<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
</span><u></u><img src="cid:17cc6a0098a4cff311" alt="Description: https://jlcpcb.com/client/svg/after_icon.svg" width="80" height="80"><u></u><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Drilling
</span><u></u><img src="cid:17cc6a0098a4cff311" alt="Description: https://jlcpcb.com/client/svg/play_icon.svg" width="80" height="80"><u></u><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">2021-10-26 16:58:11<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
</span><u></u><img src="cid:17cc6a0098a4cff311" alt="Description: https://jlcpcb.com/client/svg/after_icon.svg" width="80" height="80"><u></u><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Copper Deposition
</span><u></u><img src="cid:17cc6a0098a4cff311" alt="Description: https://jlcpcb.com/client/svg/play_icon.svg" width="80" height="80"><u></u><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">2021-10-27 04:00:02<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
</span><u></u><img src="cid:17cc6a0098a4cff311" alt="Description: https://jlcpcb.com/client/svg/after_icon.svg" width="80" height="80"><u></u><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Image the outer layers
</span><u></u><img src="cid:17cc6a0098a4cff311" alt="Description: https://jlcpcb.com/client/svg/play_icon.svg" width="80" height="80"><u></u><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">2021-10-28 08:05:02<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
</span><u></u><img src="cid:17cc6a0098a4cff311" alt="Description: https://jlcpcb.com/client/svg/after_icon.svg" width="80" height="80"><u></u><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Pattern Plating
</span><u></u><img src="cid:17cc6a0098a4cff311" alt="Description: https://jlcpcb.com/client/svg/play_icon.svg" width="80" height="80"><u></u><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">2021-10-28 10:59:02<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Roman Sowa [mailto:<a href="mailto:modular@go2.pl" target="_blank">modular@go2.pl</a>] <br>
Sent: 28 October 2021 10:45<br>
To: Mike Bryant; <a href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Does anyone here use JLCPCB for SMD assembly ?</span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">Here's a short list I made for a friend from UK who complained their local service in that are is terrible:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">At one time when I was selecting manufacturing parter, I wanted JM to be the one. They seem to be super quality, and not that far from my place.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">Back then they said that 100 of something with around 50 components is absolutely something they would love to do. But this may have changed.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><a href="https://elzab-manufacturing.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://elzab-manufacturing.com</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><a href="https://en.elhurt.com/electronics-manufacturing-services/electronics-assembly/" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://en.elhurt.com/electronics-manufacturing-services/electronics-assembly/</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><a href="https://printor.pl/en/" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://printor.pl/en/</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><a href="https://www.sims.pl/en/" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://www.sims.pl/en/</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><a href="https://ente.com.pl/en/contract-manufacturing-of-electronics-ems/" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://ente.com.pl/en/contract-manufacturing-of-electronics-ems/</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><a href="https://www.jm-ems.pl/offer,66.html" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://www.jm-ems.pl/offer,66.html</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><a href="https://www.eae-elektronik.pl/en/" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://www.eae-elektronik.pl/en/</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><a href="https://www.prototypy.com/t/61,Home" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://www.prototypy.com/t/61,Home</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">Strangely enough I do all assembly in-house, so can't really share any first hand experience with those.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">There was an article some time ago in industry magazine here about EMS, where they included a few of the companies. There was a chart with about<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">70 companies showing who does what. It's in jpg so you have to type all the links and in Polish, so if anyone is brave enough to try, I can share it.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">Roman<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">W dniu 2021-10-27 o 16:48, Mike Bryant pisze:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> Always willing to consider anything advantageous to my bottom line. Can we have some links to potential PCB manufacture and assembly houses and I'll investigate ?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> -----Original Message-----<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> From: Synth-diy [mailto:<a href="mailto:synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org</a>] On Behalf Of
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> Roman Sowa<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> Sent: 27 October 2021 15:37<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> To: <a href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Does anyone here use JLCPCB for SMD assembly ?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> Have anyone considered ordering assembly in Poland?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> We have lots of places doing all sort of things from designing circuit to shipping final products in foiled colorful box to end customers and everything in between. Couple of years ago it was advertized as "Chinese prices, European
quality".<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> Roman<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> W dniu 2021-10-27 o 16:06, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy pisze:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">>> Hi Mike,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">>><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">>>> When SMD assembly was a new service at JLCPCB there were obviously teething problems. For example parts shown as rotated online and so on but the PCBs always came back fine as they spent time fixing everything.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">>><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">>> Have you tried PCBWay? I know they are used by several instrument
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">>> manufacturers.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">>><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">>> Neil<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">>> _______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">>> Synth-diy mailing list<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">>> <a href="mailto:Synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Synth-diy@synth-diy.org</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">>> <a href="http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy" target="_blank">
<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">>> Selling or trading? Use <a href="mailto:marketplace@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">
<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">marketplace@synth-diy.org</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">>><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> _______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> Synth-diy mailing list<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> <a href="mailto:Synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Synth-diy@synth-diy.org</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> <a href="http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy" target="_blank">
<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> Selling or trading? Use <a href="mailto:marketplace@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">
<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">marketplace@synth-diy.org</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText">> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3598510469181338633MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Synth-diy mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">Synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a><br>
<a href="http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy</a><br>
Selling or trading? Use <a href="mailto:marketplace@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">marketplace@synth-diy.org</a><br>
</blockquote></div>