<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
David Simpson wrote:<br>
> I too often get hung up only knowing the "right" way to do
something but am increasingly learning there is largely no such
thing.<br>
<br>
Yeah, I'd say there is no one right way of doing it, but probably
there are some generally not-favorable ways.<br>
Although it also depends on what "it" is, the requirements for the
end result.<br>
<br>
Btw, the reason why I mentioned thicker silver wire GND wires over
other laquered copper wires as a kind of ripping-off protection
for longer ones:<br>
- I like to use thin wire (say 0.1mm) where thicker one is
electrically not required - the coat is burnt off much quicker for
tinning the ends (something like blink of an eye vs. 2..5 sec)
than e.g. 0.3mm. (@ image posted earlier is on the thicker side,
was just floating around on the bench I guess)<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 01.11.2020 um 20:58 schrieb David Simpson:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CACa+HV1oD9rWo34=VCj_gmHGndbJ9dZkdW6aF0MwFP0e3Ww0Ww@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div>hi Steve.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">love the ingenuity!
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div dir="auto">seeing this type of physical problem solving
is super helpful to a newcomer like myself. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I too often get hung up only knowing the
"right" way to do something but am increasingly learning
there is largely no such thing.</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 2:05
PM <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sleepy_dog@gmx.de" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer">sleepy_dog@gmx.de</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div><br>
Ok, I did find *something*, that's 7 years old, poor
camera, poor photographer, and not made for demo'ing
;)<br>
It does alas not show what I described w.r.t. some
longer copper wire connections being held in place in
a less fragile manner by doing the GND wires last
,with silver wire across thinner copper wires.<br>
What is visible here are the legs of a 4x opamp DIP
package (blue dotted line) stuck in from the top side
of the perfboard, and a bunch of 0805 SMT components
soldered underneath.<br>
This forms two sallen-key low pass filters IIRC, for
some control signal conditioning, and additionally the
IC has 2 decoupling capacitors.<br>
That would be 8 resistors, 10 caps.<br>
You can see, about half the passive components are
under the opamp, making the whole thing take less
board space than a only top-populated THT circuit,
even if you curve the one resistor leg to make a
standing resistor use 2 adjacent holes (making the
populated board higher - sometimes not what you want).<br>
(this is less flat than it could be as I stacked
capacitors in some places to get a more close value to
what was needed vs. what I had at hand)<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://i.postimg.cc/qvrMrtvM/SAM-0502-sml-annot.jpg"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/qvrMrtvM/SAM-0502-sml-annot.jpg</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Am 31.10.2020 um 16:12 schrieb David Simpson:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Hi Steve.</div>
<div dir="auto">Thanks for this excellent
description of your process. lots of helpful
tips. </div>
<div dir="auto">Would love to see some pictures if
you have them handy.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I don't have anything handy that would somehow
showcase especially the "tablet aided construction" as
it were ;)<br>
I reckon the end result doesn't really look much
different than anyone else's boards, other than I
mentioned it specifically as an aid to make circuits
of somewhat higher density than usual experimentel
perfboard circuits.<br>
I can imagine there are persons who find this too
fiddly mucking with the software and are practised
enough to just do it all in their head and by sight of
the circuit flawlessly, but I'm not such a one, so I
thought I throw it in there, maybe someone finds it
useful.<br>
<br>
Forgot to mention about the green plated-through
perfboards that many chinese eber sellers have,<br>
while the fact they have contacts from top to bottom
can help, you also need to take extra care of course,
to not make unintended connections, especially with
the lazy use of not-insulated wires to make long
traces I mentioned - then accidentally crossing one of
the bottom side with one on the top.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Oct
31, 2020, 7:59 AM <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sleepy_dog@gmx.de"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank">sleepy_dog@gmx.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div><br>
Heh. If I need something quickly, cant
wait for PCB, but also it does have
certain physical dimension requirements,<br>
then I do get really "boring" and do
"plan" perfboard - "what is the fun in
that" someone asked - indeed, what is
the fun in that sort of tedious,
repetitive work alltogether?<br>
Better make it as short as, and least
error prone possible. It's so much
easier to reason about misbehavior of a
circuit if it actually matches what you
have drawn - at least from the obvious
(not parasitic) components and their
supposed connections.<br>
While it's perhaps reasonabnly unlikely
to make mistakes if you have all the
space in the world and basically solder
together the circuit as-is-drawn on some
big ass perfboard, also leaving lots of
room for adding more stuff to
experiment,<br>
as things get more crowded and less
intuitively placed, I found the
following to be helpful:<br>
<br>
First of all, esp. for single-sided
perfboard, I like to combine THT ICs
with SMT 0805 passives, as you can often
put them comfortably between legs and
under the IC (on the bottom side of the
board), that already saves a lot of
space - and wiring effort.<br>
There are also these, often green,
plated-through double-sided perfboards -
may reduce the insulated connections you
have to make (which take longer due to
the need for burning away the insulation
/ tinning), e.g. all GND with silver
wire on the bottom, +V on the top side,
or so, other nets with insulated wire,
where unconnected crossings would be at
least.<br>
<br>
Also, in the type of scenario where I
would, if I could, prefer a small PCB,
but don't want to wait,<br>
I might already have a captured
schematic in my chosen EDA software
anyway - or if it's small, I'll just do
it quickly.<br>
Then convert to PCB, and usually don't
route anything, or at best a few special
traces to mark special preferences.<br>
<br>
I put that on my small-ish tablet with
stylus support, that actually fits on my
crowded soldering bench.<br>
that also runs the EDA software. Then I:<br>
<br>
foreach non-GND-net:<br>
highlight net in PCB software<br>
connect all net points in circuit
with insulated "coil wire",
point-to-point<br>
hide net's ratlines (or color
existing traces) to make visible what's
still TODO - this shrinks more and more,
and you can see the light at the end of
the tunnel<br>
<br>
This, for me anyway, proved much less
error prone than staring on a paper
printout and comparing it with the
current physical as-is schematic all the
time (even when pencil checking traces
;) ).<br>
Can basically do that half-asleep
without making a mistake. (just make
sure to display the bottom side mirrored
appropriately :D)<br>
<br>
Then for the GND net I do the above,
except I user silver coated copper wire,
a bit sturdier, and wherever possible,
do not cut, but bend around corners,
using one long piece of wire across many
connections, saving some work steps. The
silver wire will be over all those coil
wires, holding them in place a bit
better, esp. longer ones, and make it
less likely that you will rip off any
connection by accidentally grabbing too
hard anywhere.<br>
<br>
<br>
- Steve<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 31.10.2020 um 11:23 schrieb
ShedSynth:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Hi all.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I use
perfboard, but I don’t try to make
it into a PCB.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I wire
point-to-point with single core
Kynar wire, normally used for
wire-wrapping.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I use blue,
black, red and yellow on the back
for -12V, GND, +5V and +12V.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I use green
for all signals, always on the
component side.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I lay out
the big things like pots, DIL
sockets and capacitors on the
board itself, and always try to
leave rows of 4 holes to place
resistors flat.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Then I
follow the schematic, which might
take several days – this isn’t a
mass-production process.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I separate
each functional block with a pair
of pins + a jumper so I can test
on the scope as I go and also so I
can bodge blocks of completed
circuits into something else.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Hope this
might help somebody,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Al</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>If the
picture comes through, it’s most
of a Thomas Henry MAXIMUS 3340
VCO.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>The front
is just as ugly.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img
moz-do-not-send="true"
style="width:3.2812in;height:4.7187in"
id="m_3892309353377899033m_6860938373445235714m_5123415820274123231Picture_x0020_3"
height="453" width="315"><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm
0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> Synth-diy <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"><synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Timothy
Burns<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 30 October 2020
15:17<br>
<b>Cc:</b> SYNTH DIY <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"><synth-diy@synth-diy.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sdiy]
favorite Youtube genre - "old
guys repairing electronics"</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img
moz-do-not-send="true"
style="width:2.3333in;height:2.0625in"
id="m_3892309353377899033m_6860938373445235714m_5123415820274123231Picture_x0020_1"
height="198" width="224"></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Good lord, I
wish I watched this yesterday.
Also what the heck, did he <i>plan</i>
before he started soldering in
components? What fun is that?</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for
the suggestions of video and
audio channels, this will be
great to have on hand as I
re-solder everything from the
last 36 hours. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'm not
saying I'm going to start now,
but does anyone have suggestions
software or shortcuts for
planning perfboard builds?
Fritzling? (Asking for a
friend.) </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks All!</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tim</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Oct
30, 2020 at 10:34 AM Ryan B8S
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ryan@pimpdroid.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank">ryan@pimpdroid.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Not an
old guy, but I can't believe
no one mentioned Synth
Chaser at Synth Chaser dot
com.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.youtube.com/c/SynthChaser/videos"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer"
target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/c/SynthChaser/videos</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">My
favorite youtube channel by
an order of magnitude.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed,
Oct 21, 2020 at 7:08 PM
David Simpson <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:davidosimpson@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer"
target="_blank">davidosimpson@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm
0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I
recently found this
video and was astonished
by the skill, technique
quietude ala Bob Villa.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://youtu.be/_ypW45Y8VSs" rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer"
target="_blank">How to
solder grid style PCB
/ 555 PWM DC-motor
driver (EEEL1-3)</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">What
are your favorite
channels for
informative/instructive
electronics repair?
Preferable those who
don't yell or are in a
constant state of
outrage...</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br
clear="all">
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- </p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">david
o. simpson |
cameraperson |
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://binarymob.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank">binarymob.com</a>
| earth</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Synth-diy mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Synth-diy@synth-diy.org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer"
target="_blank">Synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Synth-diy mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Synth-diy@synth-diy.org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank">Synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank">http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Synth-diy@synth-diy.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Synth-diy mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Synth-diy@synth-diy.org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank">Synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank">http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
</body>
</html>