<div dir="ltr">Awesome work Mr. Dixon! I may have missed it, but what program do you use to build out your traces? Is that a part of MultiSim as well?<div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 1:02 PM David Simpson <<a href="mailto:davidosimpson@gmail.com">davidosimpson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>hi Steve.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">love the ingenuity!<div dir="auto"><br><div dir="auto">seeing this type of physical problem solving is super helpful to a newcomer like myself. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I too often get hung up only knowing the "right" way to do something but am increasingly learning there is largely no such thing.</div></div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 2:05 PM <<a href="mailto:sleepy_dog@gmx.de" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">sleepy_dog@gmx.de</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div><br>
Ok, I did find *something*, that's 7 years old, poor camera, poor
photographer, and not made for demo'ing ;)<br>
It does alas not show what I described w.r.t. some longer copper
wire connections being held in place in a less fragile manner by
doing the GND wires last ,with silver wire across thinner copper
wires.<br>
What is visible here are the legs of a 4x opamp DIP package (blue
dotted line) stuck in from the top side of the perfboard, and a
bunch of 0805 SMT components soldered underneath.<br>
This forms two sallen-key low pass filters IIRC, for some control
signal conditioning, and additionally the IC has 2 decoupling
capacitors.<br>
That would be 8 resistors, 10 caps.<br>
You can see, about half the passive components are under the
opamp, making the whole thing take less board space than a only
top-populated THT circuit, even if you curve the one resistor leg
to make a standing resistor use 2 adjacent holes (making the
populated board higher - sometimes not what you want).<br>
(this is less flat than it could be as I stacked capacitors in
some places to get a more close value to what was needed vs. what
I had at hand)<br>
<br>
<a href="https://i.postimg.cc/qvrMrtvM/SAM-0502-sml-annot.jpg" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/qvrMrtvM/SAM-0502-sml-annot.jpg</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Am 31.10.2020 um 16:12 schrieb David
Simpson:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Hi Steve.</div>
<div dir="auto">Thanks for this excellent description of your
process. lots of helpful tips. </div>
<div dir="auto">Would love to see some pictures if you have
them handy.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I don't have anything handy that would somehow showcase especially
the "tablet aided construction" as it were ;)<br>
I reckon the end result doesn't really look much different than
anyone else's boards, other than I mentioned it specifically as an
aid to make circuits of somewhat higher density than usual
experimentel perfboard circuits.<br>
I can imagine there are persons who find this too fiddly mucking
with the software and are practised enough to just do it all in
their head and by sight of the circuit flawlessly, but I'm not
such a one, so I thought I throw it in there, maybe someone finds
it useful.<br>
<br>
Forgot to mention about the green plated-through perfboards that
many chinese eber sellers have,<br>
while the fact they have contacts from top to bottom can help, you
also need to take extra care of course, to not make unintended
connections, especially with the lazy use of not-insulated wires
to make long traces I mentioned - then accidentally crossing one
of the bottom side with one on the top.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Oct 31, 2020,
7:59 AM <<a href="mailto:sleepy_dog@gmx.de" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">sleepy_dog@gmx.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div><br>
Heh. If I need something quickly, cant wait for PCB,
but also it does have certain physical dimension
requirements,<br>
then I do get really "boring" and do "plan"
perfboard - "what is the fun in that" someone asked
- indeed, what is the fun in that sort of tedious,
repetitive work alltogether?<br>
Better make it as short as, and least error prone
possible. It's so much easier to reason about
misbehavior of a circuit if it actually matches what
you have drawn - at least from the obvious (not
parasitic) components and their supposed
connections.<br>
While it's perhaps reasonabnly unlikely to make
mistakes if you have all the space in the world and
basically solder together the circuit as-is-drawn on
some big ass perfboard, also leaving lots of room
for adding more stuff to experiment,<br>
as things get more crowded and less intuitively
placed, I found the following to be helpful:<br>
<br>
First of all, esp. for single-sided perfboard, I
like to combine THT ICs with SMT 0805 passives, as
you can often put them comfortably between legs and
under the IC (on the bottom side of the board), that
already saves a lot of space - and wiring effort.<br>
There are also these, often green, plated-through
double-sided perfboards - may reduce the insulated
connections you have to make (which take longer due
to the need for burning away the insulation /
tinning), e.g. all GND with silver wire on the
bottom, +V on the top side, or so, other nets with
insulated wire, where unconnected crossings would be
at least.<br>
<br>
Also, in the type of scenario where I would, if I
could, prefer a small PCB, but don't want to wait,<br>
I might already have a captured schematic in my
chosen EDA software anyway - or if it's small, I'll
just do it quickly.<br>
Then convert to PCB, and usually don't route
anything, or at best a few special traces to mark
special preferences.<br>
<br>
I put that on my small-ish tablet with stylus
support, that actually fits on my crowded soldering
bench.<br>
that also runs the EDA software. Then I:<br>
<br>
foreach non-GND-net:<br>
highlight net in PCB software<br>
connect all net points in circuit with insulated
"coil wire", point-to-point<br>
hide net's ratlines (or color existing traces)
to make visible what's still TODO - this shrinks
more and more, and you can see the light at the end
of the tunnel<br>
<br>
This, for me anyway, proved much less error prone
than staring on a paper printout and comparing it
with the current physical as-is schematic all the
time (even when pencil checking traces ;) ).<br>
Can basically do that half-asleep without making a
mistake. (just make sure to display the bottom side
mirrored appropriately :D)<br>
<br>
Then for the GND net I do the above, except I user
silver coated copper wire, a bit sturdier, and
wherever possible, do not cut, but bend around
corners, using one long piece of wire across many
connections, saving some work steps. The silver wire
will be over all those coil wires, holding them in
place a bit better, esp. longer ones, and make it
less likely that you will rip off any connection by
accidentally grabbing too hard anywhere.<br>
<br>
<br>
- Steve<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 31.10.2020 um 11:23 schrieb ShedSynth:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Hi all.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I use perfboard, but I
don’t try to make it into a PCB.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I wire point-to-point
with single core Kynar wire, normally used for
wire-wrapping.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I use blue, black, red
and yellow on the back for -12V, GND, +5V and
+12V.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I use green for all
signals, always on the component side.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I lay out the big
things like pots, DIL sockets and capacitors
on the board itself, and always try to leave
rows of 4 holes to place resistors flat.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Then I follow the
schematic, which might take several days –
this isn’t a mass-production process.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I separate each
functional block with a pair of pins + a
jumper so I can test on the scope as I go and
also so I can bodge blocks of completed
circuits into something else.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Hope this might help
somebody,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Al</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>If the picture comes
through, it’s most of a Thomas Henry MAXIMUS
3340 VCO.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>The front is just as
ugly.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img style="width: 3.2812in; height: 4.7187in;" id="gmail-m_4034979003211794388m_3892309353377899033m_6860938373445235714m_5123415820274123231Picture_x0020_3" height="453" width="315"><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Synth-diy <a href="mailto:synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"><synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Timothy Burns<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 30 October 2020 15:17<br>
<b>Cc:</b> SYNTH DIY <a href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"><synth-diy@synth-diy.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sdiy] favorite Youtube
genre - "old guys repairing electronics"</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img style="width: 2.3333in; height: 2.0625in;" id="gmail-m_4034979003211794388m_3892309353377899033m_6860938373445235714m_5123415820274123231Picture_x0020_1" height="198" width="224"></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Good lord, I wish I watched
this yesterday. Also what the heck, did he <i>plan</i>
before he started soldering in components?
What fun is that?</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for the
suggestions of video and audio channels,
this will be great to have on hand as I
re-solder everything from the last 36
hours. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'm not saying I'm going
to start now, but does anyone have
suggestions software or shortcuts for
planning perfboard builds? Fritzling?
(Asking for a friend.) </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks All!</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tim</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at
10:34 AM Ryan B8S <<a href="mailto:ryan@pimpdroid.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">ryan@pimpdroid.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Not an old guy, but I
can't believe no one mentioned Synth
Chaser at Synth Chaser dot com.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/c/SynthChaser/videos" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/c/SynthChaser/videos</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">My favorite youtube
channel by an order of magnitude.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Oct 21, 2020
at 7:08 PM David Simpson <<a href="mailto:davidosimpson@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">davidosimpson@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I recently found
this video and was astonished by the
skill, technique quietude ala Bob
Villa.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://youtu.be/_ypW45Y8VSs" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">How
to solder grid style PCB / 555 PWM
DC-motor driver (EEEL1-3)</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">What are your
favorite channels for
informative/instructive electronics
repair? Preferable those who don't
yell or are in a constant state of
outrage...</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- </p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">david
o. simpson |
cameraperson |
<a href="http://binarymob.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">binarymob.com</a>
| earth</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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