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<p>Yes, really.</p>
<p>Signal amplitude of interest is well covered. You don't need
500V/div in a scope. Analog front end is adequate to the scope
bandwidth which go up to some 30MHz in those toys. Maybe missing
those 1mV/div settings in some models, but who needs that for
entry level DIY? The old analog scopes were usually 5-20MHz and
bandwidth was not the weakest pont anyway. First 100MHz analog
scope I saw was big heavy and noisy Russian machine in mid 90's.</p>
<p>Aliasing in digital scopes is a thing and anybody using it is
aware of that. It's mentioned everytime someone says
"oscilloscope". I think a newbie first learns about aliasing
before knowing what an oscilloscope is. It's like saying you can't
work with high voltage because it can shock you. There is no scope
that prevents aliasing, no such thing as antialias filtering in
any scope, including top range of top brands, because it's
limiting and useless. Just like there's no scope with a button
"show me what's wrong with this signal". A scope is a tool for
thinking human.</p>
<p>A violin will not play by itself either and if you don't know how
to play, it will only make terrible noises, even if it's $1M
Stradivari.</p>
<p>Roman<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">W dniu 2020-10-10 o 11:01,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sleepy_dog@gmx.de">sleepy_dog@gmx.de</a> pisze:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:d9d874d3-a377-1a04-4458-836b50e86676@gmx.de">
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
> small toy scopes for below $100. And frankly they are
better than big 50kg scopes I had in school<br>
<br>
Really? Including the analog front end, signal amplitude it can
take, coupling options etc?<br>
And those old clunky analog scopes in school certainly did not
fool you with aliasing due to improper filtering esp. when
sample rate drops on long time base with ridiculously low
k(!)points memory depth (like also "cheaper" *cough* Tek DSOs
just a couple years ago), making you see things that aren't
there.<br>
Those below 100 bucks scopes also usually have a very low
sampling rate to start with, right?<br>
(don't "need" so high frequencies in synth DIY? Well, the
*intended* frequencies that your DIY circuits *intentionally
oscillate* at may perhaps not need that... :D)<br>
Sure, he can watch a video like below and then know about that
one thing.<br>
It seems to me when entering a subject with a million
questionmarks, adding more confusing stuff one has to be aware
of might be disorienting.<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWADu0aKk0w"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWADu0aKk0w</a><br>
<br>
<br>
- Steve<br>
<br>
<br>
Roman Sowa wrote:<br>
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type="cite">
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<p>Totally agree.</p>
<p>What may not seem so obvious, there's a catch - when you can
afford all the fancy tools you dream of, then suddenly your
creativity drops down the floor. With crappy tools you have to
be more creative and think, imagine, explore, experiment. For
example soldering - you have to learn how to solder anyhow,
and cheap soldering iron is not forgiving, so it will force
you to think what you're doing and be totally aware of what to
do in certain situations. I have bought my first temperature
controlled station about 20 years after I started soldering.
Only because of that I could appreciate it. In case you
wonder, yest it's possible to succesfully solder SMD with
transformer soldering gun.<br>
</p>
<p>The scope is essential, I think even more than multimeter,
but today you can buy small toy scopes for below $100. And
frankly they are better than big 50kg scopes I had in school.
I have quite a few of those toy scopes, this is my small
addiction, so if you want to ask about specific model, I
probably have that. Don't buy "best scope you can afford", or
"scope planned for the future". Those times are over. Now
there's new scope coming every year, cheaper and better than
others. After 2-3 years you'll know what to look for, and it
will be more GAS hitting than real measurement needs. <br>
</p>
<p>It is very unpopular point of view here, but I think modern
digital scopes are much better that vintage analog Tek.<br>
</p>
<p>Roman<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">W dniu 2020-10-10 o 01:49, Peter
Pearson pisze:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+qbVc-t_fBQG-Mi_-qs8Rzcdci_1VXBT_8XoAw3PTp9+twxUQ@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">While I agree that spending $1k will definitely
get you set up, we aren't all so lucky. Especially when
we're spending money made mowing lawns or working minimum
wage as a youngster. What I meant was that a quality iron
will really make the biggest improvement. That plus an "it
works fine" multimeter and a working 20MHz oscilloscope used
is almost all you need (less parts but that's subjective) to
do some damage. Take the price point down from $1k to
something more like $200-$300 or less and that's attainable
for a lot of people.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Something like this:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HicV3Z6XLFA"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HicV3Z6XLFA</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>BUY USED!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You can work up to a $10k oscilloscope or whatever once
you <u>need</u> one.</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at
7:36 PM Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy <<a
href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I learned this stuff as
a kid through trial, error, burned fingers, and Radio
Shack. I never had more than ten or so dollars on hand,
so no voltmeter, no breadboard, no spools of wire. I
remember building the basic 556 “Atari punk console”
circuit and just thinking it made horrible noises nobody
would ever want to hear.<br>
After building light-controlled oscillators for a year, I
started checking out books at Colorado State University.
The ancient books were the best: Musique Concrète and this
book written in Spanish from the 1940s showing how a film
loop generating optical pulses going into a modulator
circuit could be what we call a drum machine. My mother
told me about the Telharmonium in Worcester MA she read
about in Yankee Magazine. I built a Theremin using an
oscillator and an AM radio, and realized it would be
easier to master the violin than to get a melody out of a
Theremin. Then I found the 1970s books from UCLA on what
we now call West Coast Synthesis. When I got to the log
tables in the middle of the book I knew I couldn’t follow
it; if music was math, music was not for me. <br>
It took a couple of years of futility to realize I had to
try again.<br>
Paia was so inspirational, yet at the same time I felt the
kits were full of design compromises that left me in the
dark about best practices. (I remember testing the Gnome
after my brother put it together and we both thought it
was broken; but it was just the T filter doing its crappy
T filter thing.)<br>
Then I was gifted a broken Paia Proteus when I was a
junior in high school. Fixing that beautiful machine gave
me a new appreciation for Paia.<br>
<br>
Paia turned me onto Don Lancaster and Craig Anderton (as
editor of Electronic Musician). <br>
After I got my hands on the books by Bryce Ward and Barry
Klein, I really wanted to do this stuff, but I had no way
to earn a living, and neither the math nor the music.<br>
<br>
How long does one have to live before you just start doing
what you love? <br>
<br>
Benjamin Tremblay<br>
<br>
> On Oct 9, 2020, at 6:53 PM, Benjamin Tremblay via
Synth-diy <<a href="mailto:Synth-diy@synth-diy.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
<br>
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