<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">My apologies, I didn’t intend to derail this thread into a discussion of planned obsolescence / proprietary chips / etc.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It was really only a throwaway remark because it feels like most times when people need some unobtanium part, it’s got a Yamaha factory number on it. Having thought about it some more, the exception to this (in my experience, at least) is the IR3R01, Roland’s weird envelope generator. They seem to be dying out, and there’s no obvious replacement for that currently.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Tom</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">
<div>==================<br class=""> Electric Druid<br class="">Synth & Stompbox DIY<br class="">==================</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 6 Oct 2020, at 16:10, Pete Hartman <<a href="mailto:pete.hartman@gmail.com" class="">pete.hartman@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">I see it less as "planned" and more as short term cost-benefit analysis ignoring longer term considerations. This is a "feature" of nearly all corporate consumer product endeavors. It has proven to be profitable in the short term, and that is all anyone minding the money part of the business cares about. <br class=""><br class="">You'll note that exceptions to the rule ot cheap design usually are either 1) smaller companies, at least when they started the products in question, or 2) probably have some engineers whose input is actually given some weight (e.g. Apple, though that seems to have fallen off a lot in the last decade). No engineer is "planning" for things to break in the relatively short term, but they are given constraints from management that lead to those results.<br class=""><br class="">The end effect is the same, and as someone who purchases and uses these products it's very frustrating, but it requires no specific ill intent on the company's part to get us there. <br class=""><br class="">BTW you see the effects of the same pressures all the time in software products -- bugs that are there because it was rushed out the door to meet marketing timelines, rather than because they were actually missed in a QA process that was given adequate time and weight.<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Pete</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 9:14 AM Michael E Caloroso <<a href="mailto:mec.forumreader@gmail.com" class="">mec.forumreader@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Not planned obsolescence?<br class="">
<br class="">
When's the last time anyone has contacted Yamaha for data sheets on<br class="">
the custom ICs, with the hope to replicate them using modern<br class="">
technology?<br class="">
<br class="">
They don't have them. They're gone.<br class="">
<br class="">
Why? Back in the 1990s, Yamaha destroyed their spare stock of custom<br class="">
ICs and their data sheets. They could had auctioned them off, could<br class="">
have digitally scanned the data sheets for perpetuity.<br class="">
<br class="">
But no, they DESTROYED them. Gone forever.<br class="">
<br class="">
I respect intellectual property, but as a consumer this disposition<br class="">
makes me very reluctant to buy Yamaha products with the very real<br class="">
concern that they will have a short life and spare parts will not be<br class="">
available for repair.<br class="">
<br class="">
Yes I am well aware that custom parts are all over in modern devices<br class="">
and that warehousing spare parts is expensive. But destroying crucial<br class="">
info on the technology of the custom parts crosses the line.<br class="">
<br class="">
PMI destroyed crucial info on the SSM parts. The much-loved SSM2040<br class="">
was hailed as the best sounding VCF-on-a-chip. Are they gone forever?<br class="">
Not while the original designer - Dave Rossum - is still around, and<br class="">
he was part of the design group for the new SSI2140 VCF.<br class="">
<br class="">
There is a big demand to keep old gear running. Rossum shares this<br class="">
passion. Yamaha doesn't. Sure, Yamaha has been teasing about a CS-80<br class="">
reissue... for YEARS. Maybe their disposal of crucial tech info on<br class="">
those custom parts is hindering their efforts?<br class="">
<br class="">
Still dispute the planned obsolescence label?<br class="">
<br class="">
Open up an early Yamaha analog synth and inspect the electrolytic<br class="">
bypass caps. The original caps on the 15 volt rails were rated at >16<br class="">
volts<. Anyone who has been in EE classes knows that the decades old<br class="">
design convention is to spec maximum voltage ratings at DOUBLE the<br class="">
supply rail.<br class="">
<br class="">
Any design that underspecs the components is destined to fail. This<br class="">
doesn't fall under intellectual property. This is planned<br class="">
obsolescence and it was intentional. When I see that kind of poor<br class="">
quality in a product, I refuse to patronize that company.<br class="">
<br class="">
Yamaha is hardly alone... I see inferior designs from many countries,<br class="">
including the US.<br class="">
<br class="">
MC<br class="">
<br class="">
On 10/6/20, Gordonjcp <<a href="mailto:gordonjcp@gjcp.net" target="_blank" class="">gordonjcp@gjcp.net</a>> wrote:<br class="">
> On Tue, Oct 06, 2020 at 07:33:17PM +1000, Adam Inglis (sdiy) wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Interesting points Mattias!<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> What exactly did these chips do that could not otherwise be done?<br class="">
><br class="">
> Cram a bunch of functionality into a single chip, instead of a<br class="">
> postcard-sized piece of PCB.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Compare the PCB of the Sinclair ZX80 from around the same time:<br class="">
><br class="">
> <a href="https://www.8bity.cz/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/ZX80R_najdi_10_rozdilu_thumb.jpg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.8bity.cz/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/ZX80R_najdi_10_rozdilu_thumb.jpg</a><br class="">
><br class="">
> with the PCB from the ZX81 where all the "glue logic" was crammed into a<br class="">
> single Ferranti ULA:<br class="">
><br class="">
> <a href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/Sinclair_ZX81_PCB_Top.JPG/800px-Sinclair_ZX81_PCB_Top.JPG" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/Sinclair_ZX81_PCB_Top.JPG/800px-Sinclair_ZX81_PCB_Top.JPG</a><br class="">
><br class="">
> You'll probably find that Yamaha's "custom" chip was similar to the<br class="">
> off-the-shelf ULA used in the ZX81. All the gates and stuff are there, they<br class="">
> just need a couple more layers of metal to wire them up for the user<br class="">
> application.<br class="">
><br class="">
> --<br class="">
> Gordonjcp<br class="">
><br class="">
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