<div dir="ltr">Colin, I mean put the SMD 3340 in oine of those adaptor boards for prototyping, essentially making it through hole. Here's an example I found in a quick search : <a href="https://protosupplies.com/product/pcb-smd-sop-28-ssop-28-to-dip-adapter5-pack/">https://protosupplies.com/product/pcb-smd-sop-28-ssop-28-to-dip-adapter5-pack/</a></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 7:58 PM ColinMuirDorward <<a href="mailto:colindorward@gmail.com">colindorward@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Quincas, do you mean to put the tempco and transistors in a breakout? <br></div><div>I guess it was more to do with the cost of sourcing those parts. I priced it out and just buying the 3340 was less expensive (at the time). But moving forward, I'd like to try your solution. Got any photos to share?</div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Colin<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 5:49 PM Quincas Moreira <<a href="mailto:quincas@gmail.com" target="_blank">quincas@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Colin, put it in a through hole breakout board and call it a day ;)</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 7:21 PM ColinMuirDorward <<a href="mailto:colindorward@gmail.com" target="_blank">colindorward@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Thanks for chiming in, Alex. Interesting to hear of the possibility of a future revision.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I wonder if this is a good place to cast my vote (again!) for a through-zero 3340?<br></div><div><br></div><div>Jay, I think you're right, but on the other hand, using the chip means I don't need to source tempcos or matched transistors. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Colin<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 3:13 PM Jay Schwichtenberg <<a href="mailto:jschwich53@comcast.net" target="_blank">jschwich53@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>My personal thought is that for just a VCO I'd go with a classic
design. To me these chips are more appropriate for something like
a stand alone keyboard or poly synth. Using them as a regular VCO
usually requires you to normalize the output waveforms bias and
level, typically with additional op-amps. By the time you add that
circuitry you're getting close to the number of chips you have in
a classic VCO and a PCB of about the same size.<br>
</p>
<p>I was wondering if you add the -5V regulator, set the PWM to some
optimal value and then used an external PWM circuit off the saw
wave whether or not that would either eliminate or considerably
reduce the problem of PWM/frequency issues?</p>
<p>Jay S.<br>
</p>
<div>On 12/28/2019 2:47 AM, Aa Bb wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">(From ALFA RPAR AS) <br>
Dear Sir's<br>
<br>
We've noticed discussion on DIY forum's about AS3340
PWM issues.<br>
It looks several opinions exist and some of them are partly
close to reality. We <br>
wanted to provide some information about these question.<br>
<br>
1.1 First important moment - all 3340 incarnations have
influence PWM on <br>
frequency (linear influence and spike at 50%). They differ in
character and level. <br>
For better understanding curve - Freq.dev./ Pwm level
must be build an analyzed.<br>
Example of such curve for AS3340-HYB is provided in datasheet :<br>
<a href="http://www.alfarzpp.lv/eng/sc/AS3340-HYB.php" target="_blank">http://www.alfarzpp.lv/eng/sc/AS3340-HYB.php</a><br>
<br>
1.2 Main source of such influence - very fast switching
of comparator output (pin 4). But also<br>
some other minor effect exist. High slew rate makes problems
for internal circuitry (high current spikes <br>
on different internal nets ) and also, if layout is made not
so good, on negative supply (pin 3).<br>
Almost identical schematics of these comparator, for
better understanding, is provided<br>
in AS3340-HYB datasheet:<br>
<a href="http://www.alfarzpp.lv/eng/sc/AS3340-HYB.php" target="_blank">http://www.alfarzpp.lv/eng/sc/AS3340-HYB.php</a><br>
<br>
1.3 Different solutions may be used in different
situations and requirements.<br>
1.3.1 Old builds repair.<br>
In old builds situation is "as is" and it is almost
impossible to change anything. For such case <br>
we offer - AS3340-HYB - solution witch almost totaly excludes
PWM influence on frequency (in <br>
comparison with all other 3340 variants !!!).<br>
Main idea - DIP module is based on AS3345F (QFN) and is
pin-to-pin compatible with 3340.<br>
Comparator, similar to the one inside of AS3340 is made on
separate transistors/resistors. Internal <br>
comparator is turned OFF. So, high slew-rate current spikes in
these solution are flowing through <br>
"external" comparator and it's influence on AS3340 is
minimized.<br>
Certainly, for better immunity, output current
minimization, better to decrease output current<br>
by increasing load resistor till 51k or more (depends from
application).<br>
So, for such case, - our opinion - use AS3340-HYB.<br>
<br>
1.3.2 For new designs.<br>
Several variants , moments:<br>
1.3.2.1 If You use PWM - "protect" pin3 from pin 4 -
layout, bypass capacitor.<br>
1.3.2.2 Try to decrease slew rate of comparator output:<br>
- increase load resistor (it will decrease comparator
output current)<br>
- connect pin 5 and pin pin 4 with MegaOhm resistor and
add to pin 4 capacitor.<br>
But linear influence PWM on frequency still remains. <br>
<br>
1.3.2.3 Use AS3340-HYB - witch it the best in these
moment.<br>
<br>
We just tried to explain "mechanism" of problem. Other
schematic tricks can be used.<br>
<br>
<div> We hope, in some time, new revision of AS3340A will be
available.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>ALFA RPAR AS</div>
<div>Alex Zaslavsky<br>
</div>
<div><a href="mailto:alfa@alfarzpp.lv" target="_blank">alfa@alfarzpp.lv</a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.alfarzpp.lv/eng/sc/application.php" target="_blank">http://www.alfarzpp.lv/eng/sc/application.php</a></div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 22 Dec 2019 at 01:17,
Doug Terrebonne via Synth-diy <<a href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div dir="ltr">Yes, the original rev F CEM3340s in the
JP-6 don't have this issue.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Doug <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><a href="http://synthparts.com" target="_blank">synthparts.com</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_-2897106115547168622gmail-m_-8481378606121807389gmail-m_2679826678370380211gmail-m_8796266394253402177gmail-m_2663333955044226633gmail-m_-8014807944889351604ydp5fb438c1yahoo_quoted_7775195667">
<div>
<div> On Saturday, December 21, 2019, 3:11:12 PM PST,
ColinMuirDorward <<a href="mailto:colindorward@gmail.com" target="_blank">colindorward@gmail.com</a>>
wrote: </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div id="gmail-m_-2897106115547168622gmail-m_-8481378606121807389gmail-m_2679826678370380211gmail-m_8796266394253402177gmail-m_2663333955044226633gmail-m_-8014807944889351604ydp5fb438c1yiv4177196667">
<div>
<div>Thanks, Doug.
<div>Is it true that this problem didn't
manifest with the original CEM3340?</div>
<div>Colin</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div id="gmail-m_-2897106115547168622gmail-m_-8481378606121807389gmail-m_2679826678370380211gmail-m_8796266394253402177gmail-m_2663333955044226633gmail-m_-8014807944889351604ydp5fb438c1yiv4177196667yqt40030">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Sat, Dec 21, 2019, 3:08 PM
Doug Terrebonne, <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:dougt55@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">dougt55@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div dir="ltr">I just tried as AS3340 in
my JP-6 and changing the PW does
affect the pitch (mostly noticeable in
the higher octaves). The autotune can
compensate for it though (adjust PW,
hit Tune button).</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Doug <br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><a shape="rect" href="http://synthparts.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">synthparts.com</a><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_-2897106115547168622gmail-m_-8481378606121807389gmail-m_2679826678370380211gmail-m_8796266394253402177gmail-m_2663333955044226633gmail-m_-8014807944889351604ydp5fb438c1yiv4177196667m_3476777082158557988ydpea96d023yahoo_quoted_7890612628">
<div>
<div> On Thursday, December 19, 2019,
3:12:35 PM PST, ColinMuirDorward
<<a shape="rect" href="mailto:colindorward@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">colindorward@gmail.com</a>>
wrote: </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<div id="gmail-m_-2897106115547168622gmail-m_-8481378606121807389gmail-m_2679826678370380211gmail-m_8796266394253402177gmail-m_2663333955044226633gmail-m_-8014807944889351604ydp5fb438c1yiv4177196667m_3476777082158557988ydpea96d023yiv1930414145">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Out of
curiosity, does anyone have
an mks80 rev4 and/or Jupiter
6 they could test for this
problem? </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">My brother sold
his mks80 rev4 already, but
claims the pitch error was
quite bad in his unit.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">In the next
model, the rev5, Roland
apparently switched the 3340
for a proprietary VCO chip. <br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Colin</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div id="gmail-m_-2897106115547168622gmail-m_-8481378606121807389gmail-m_2679826678370380211gmail-m_8796266394253402177gmail-m_2663333955044226633gmail-m_-8014807944889351604ydp5fb438c1yiv4177196667m_3476777082158557988ydpea96d023yiv1930414145yqt22023">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Dec
19, 2019 at 3:48 PM Tom
Wiltshire <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:tom@electricdruid.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">tom@electricdruid.net</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>My own view of it is
that if you want cheap,
you buy the Alfa AS3340.
If you want original and
can afford it, you buy
the CEM3340 G. The V3340
falls somewhere in the
middle and therefore
doesn’t offer a unique
selling point for
DIYers.
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Coolaudio don’t
care, since Behringer
needs tons of ‘em! ;)</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<div>Tom</div>
<div><br clear="none">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 19 Dec
2019, at 13:53,
ColinMuirDorward
<<a shape="rect" href="mailto:colindorward@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">colindorward@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br clear="none">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I didn't
see a lot of
discussion on
this topic
include the
v3340. Not
sure if people
had already
collected the
CEM and AS
versions by
the time the
Vs came out,
or what, but
the coolaudios
don't seem to
be on as many
work benches.</div>
<div> I just
checked a
neutron and no
surprise that
I could not
find any pitch
error there. <br clear="none">
</div>
<div>I have a
lot of
as3340s, so
when my next
prototype
comes in, I
could check
for error
variation
between chips.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Colin<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On
Thu, Dec 19,
2019 at 10:01
AM Tom
Wiltshire <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:tom@electricdruid.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">tom@electricdruid.net</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>A quick
test on my
Pro-One
doesn’t reveal
any tuning
problem. I
routed the LFO
to PW on
oscillator A,
then listened
to Oscillator
A’s ramp wave
alone (so no
beating to
confuse
things) and
couldn’t hear
any
difference,
even with
maximum mod
depth and
maximum LFO
rate. Checking
the output on
the
oscilloscope
showed no
pitch
variation
either.
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>That
said, there’s
some evidence
Sequential
*did* select
3340s. The
ones regarded
as “not good
enough” were
used for LFO
duties, and if
you check the
PCBs you’ll
see paint
blobs on those
ones. I’ve
never seen
anything
documenting
what the tests
were though.
Maybe they
just built the
things and
swapped out
any that
caused a
problem, put a
blob on them,
and then used
them later
where it
wouldn’t
matter.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>A more
interesting
test which I
might get to
later would be
an A/B/C
comparison on
my 3340 test
board between
CEM3340 G,
AS3340, and
V3340. Despite
having all
three chips on
the shelf,
I’ve never
actually done
this.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Tom</div>
<div><br clear="none">
<div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">==================<br clear="none">
Electric
Druid<br clear="none">
Synth &
Stompbox DIY<br clear="none">
==================</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 19 Dec
2019, at
12:06, Mattias
Rickardsson
<<a shape="rect" href="mailto:mr@analogue.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">mr@analogue.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<br clear="none">
<div>
<div>I
remember
talking to
Dieter Doepfer
about this
back in the
day... Ah,
here it is:
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>/mr</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">At
17:52
2003-02-02,
Dieter Doepfer
wrote:</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">>
>
-----Ursprüngliche
Nachricht-----</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">>
> Von:
Mattias
Rickardsson </span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">>
> Gesendet
am: Mittwoch,
29. Januar
2003 11:10</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">>
> An: </span><a shape="rect" href="mailto:hardware@doepfer.de" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(66,133,244);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">hardware@doepfer.de</a><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">; </span><a shape="rect" href="mailto:technik@doepfer.de" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(66,133,244);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">technik@doepfer.de</a><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">>
> Betreff:
A-111 problem?
(PW affects
Frequency)</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">>
></span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">>
> Hi,</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">>
> I have a
problem with
several of my
A-111 High-End
VCOs:</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">>
></span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">>
> The
pulsewidth
(both PW knob
and PWM
input+knob)
affects the
frequency</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">>
> of the
oscillator.
I.e., when
turning the PW
knob or PWM
modulating
with</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">>
> a slow
LFO, the
frequency
makes a
clearly
audible
change.</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">>
>...</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">>Dear
Mattias,</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">>I
forward your
inquiry to our
A-111
specialist
Matthias
Marass</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">>(mailto:</span><a shape="rect" href="mailto:keyboards@doepfer.de" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(66,133,244);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">keyboards@doepfer.de</a><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">)</span><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">. He is responsible</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">>for
the final
tests and
repairs</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">>of
the A-111. He
will answer
you directly.</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">At
15:36
2003-06-11,
Döpfer
Musikelektronik
-
Keyboardservice
wrote:</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">Dear
Mr.
Rickardsson,</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">the
influence of
the external
and internal
PW</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">control
voltage to the
oscillator
frequency is a</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">problem
of nearly
80..90% of the
CEM3340 we
ever</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">used.
Unfortunately
there is no
chance to
repair</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">this
problem. The
only way would
be a strict</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">selection
of the CEM3340
circuits.</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">...</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">Best
regards,</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">Matthias
Marass</span><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Den
tors 19 dec.
2019
10:42Oakley
Sound via
Synth-diy <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>>
skrev:<br clear="none">
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<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> >
... "So as a
conclusion the
goal is to
have on pin3
as close as <br clear="none">
possible to
-5V and the
PWM to tune
error will not
manifest
itself."<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I did not find
this to be the
case since I
always run any
3340 circuit <br clear="none">
from a
precision 5V
reference. The
solution for
me was to get
the <br clear="none">
CEM3340 rev G.
The CEM3340
has the detune
too, it's just
that it is <br clear="none">
quite small. I
can't remember
exactly, but I
think it's in
the region of
<br clear="none">
+/-1 cent. It
would almost
certainly be
there on the
SH-101.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Alfa's
solution is to
use the newer
AS3340-HYB.
The other
thing to do is
<br clear="none">
make your own
triangle or
saw to pulse
wave convertor
from an op-amp
or <br clear="none">
comparator
external to
the chip.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
When repairing
an OB-Sx I
found that the
AS3340 did not
work well as a
<br clear="none">
sub for the
original
CEM3340. Even
with the
various
resistor
changes <br clear="none">
required to
get the AS3340
to work
properly, the
VCOs in last
three <br clear="none">
voice card
positions on
the
motherboard
displayed a
very audible
pitch <br clear="none">
instability at
pulse widths
at less than
45%. Clearly,
there was some
<br clear="none">
layout issue
but although I
tried all
sorts of
things
(including bus
bar <br clear="none">
0V and liberal
dousing of
capacitance)
it wouldn't
solve the
problem. <br clear="none">
Again, the
solution was
to replace all
the VCOs with
CEM3340 G.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Tony<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
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