<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
Hey,<br>
<br>
Protocol analyzer: Whart, the Owon does not have that? :P :D<br>
I guess you are aware of those chinese ultra cheapo probes that
you can connect to Sigrok and then do all sorts of protocol
analyses? (like, add a UART decoder to a line, and stack a MIDI
decoder onto it...)<br>
<br>
Owon scope, interesting, my perception so far was that they are
regarded *much* less highly than the Rigol ones in all sorts of
regards, but maybe they have improved.<br>
I think Siglent also supposedly improved a lot, with their "higher
end" models anyway.<br>
<br>
I do find the Rigol encoders a bit slow, but calling it "useless",
I don't know, Brian must be a vampire or something (in some media
they have much higher speed of movement than humans ;)).<br>
And in the 7 or so years that I have some scope or another, I may
have used the "auto set" 2..3 times ;)<br>
But I confess, I used the "measure all" button a lot, which often
has in the big table of measurements that fills half the screen,
at leats one thing I am interested in at that time, so I don't
need to fumble with cursors or poke around in menus.<br>
And for some things I have done, I would have been lost without
the memory sizes of todays scopes.<br>
<br>
I have used Tek DSOs made between 2005 and 2014, old analog HAMEG
ones, and a LeCroy WaveRunner from ~ 2010 with Windows XP on it
which had cost more than my current car costs new ;)<br>
While I can't say what Brian is using that I'm maybe not using due
to lack of knowledge or type of projects,<br>
I can say I like some aspects of the Rigol User Interface better
than of the Tek scopes I have used,<br>
but do acknowledge that the update rate is somewhat slow, so if
you really are really fast, I guess, you won't see well enough
what you are doing - but I think I developed something like
"intuitive physics" for it, lol, I have a feeling for how much to
turn the knobs to get to where, even if I don't see the relevant
screen update immediately but some blink of an eye later.<br>
<br>
- Steve<br>
<br>
<br>
Tom Wiltshire wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:17BDA4E4-A092-480D-A951-721528067DB4@electricdruid.net"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
Have you ever used one of the Owon scopes, Brian? Similar price to
Rigols, but better than what you’re describing, if the Rigols are
really that bad.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I’d be interested to hear your view. I’ve been using
one for several years now and find it very suitable for the
stuff I do. It’s fast and plenty accurate enough for my
purposes. The interface is clear and pretty straightforward, I’d
say. One or two of the lesser-used features might be a bit of a
poke-around, but that’s why they put the lesser-used features
there and gave the common stuff it’s own front panel button.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I’ve never used a Tek scope, but unless it makes me
toast and a nice cup of tea and magically improves my sex life,
it’s going to struggle to justify the huge price-per-feature
increase over cheaper scopes. Seems to me they’re mostly aiming
at a market of people who buy them for the work lab with someone
else’s money. I’m not convinced at all.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Tom</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">==================<br
class="">
Electric Druid<br class="">
Synth & Stompbox DIY<br class="">
==================</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 7 May 2018, at 01:41, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rsdio@audiobanshee.com" class="">rsdio@audiobanshee.com</a>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">If you’ll note, I used terms like “unusable”
and “useless” before saying “overall design quality.” I
guess I should have said, “overall usability design
quality” or “overall user experience design quality.”<br
class="">
<br class="">
I am an EE and I have used many different ‘scopes over
the decades. When I’m using a ‘scope, I’m not really
concerned with what it looks like when you take it apart
(*) in a YouTube video, I’m focused on getting a task
done. The Rigol makes it almost impossible to get work
done at a reasonable pace. I’d rather have an ancient
‘scope with fewer features that work quickly, than a
modern ‘scope that doesn’t know how to provide precise
control over those features. I’m not saying that the
encoders are falling off (physical build quality), I’m
saying that I can’t use them to get work done
efficiently (user experience design quality).<br
class="">
<br class="">
It’s like the firmware inside the Rigol was created by a
team with absolutely no experience in practical
functionality or user experience.<br class="">
<br class="">
Mere editing of things like calibration scaling or DC
offset gets to be hopeless. If all you know how to do
when it comes to using a ‘scope is the automatic
settings, then the encoders won’t really bother you.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Admittedly, some of my clients are not EE graduates, and
they’re not interested in hiring EE graduates, but they
still buy a ‘scope so they can plod along. Folks who
don’t know what they’re missing aren’t really going to
complain about the poor usability of the Rigol designs.
I guarantee you that it’s only popular because it’s
cheap and most folks don’t know any better.<br class="">
<br class="">
Brian<br class="">
<br class="">
p.s. I am happy that the Tektronix parts have reliable
build quality. If the user experience wasn’t functional,
then I really wouldn’t care how well the Tektronix was
put together. However, when they have both build quality
and appropriate user interface design, that’s the
ultimate.<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
On May 6, 2018, at 3:35 PM, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sleepy_dog@gmx.de" class="">sleepy_dog@gmx.de</a>
wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">I have found the
Rigol products to be completely unusable compared
to quality ‘scopes. The encoders are useless, for
all intents and purposes. There’s a reason these
‘scopes are cheap, and hacking one to a higher
base model does not make up for the poor overall
design quality.<br class="">
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<<<br class="">
<br class="">
Do you have anything concrete about that "poor overall
design quality"?<br class="">
I have seen teardowns and extensive tests done by
several EEs, and they were quite impressed with the
quality, even though there have initially been some
firmware bugs.<br class="">
<br class="">
Apparently many people finding them quite usable, some
of them smaller companies, not just hobbyists.<br
class="">
When I bought my Rigol of the newer generation when it
had just come out, its specs - and they are real specs
- completely dwarfed the back then basic Tek DSO
model, especially its laughable point memory size (and
the "1 elephant tooth per kpoints" they were asking
for extra). For what was it, 1/3 the price or less? I
don't remember exactly.<br class="">
<br class="">
Now take it with as many tablespoons of salt as you
like as I'm no EE, but there are not just a few EEs
who do approve of that product line :-)<br class="">
<br class="">
I'm not sure what exactly is your beef with the
encoders. That they're a bit slow?<br class="">
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br
class="">
Synth-diy mailing list<br class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Synth-diy@synth-diy.org" class="">Synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a><br
class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy">http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy</a><br
class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
</body>
</html>