<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
Julian Schmidt wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:698854f9-6a9b-550b-1803-1feb269d15cb@gmx.net"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:trinity-353db197-cc5a-4651-9553-122f0d99b524-1501068126968@3capp-gmx-bs61">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div> </div>
<div>Julian Schmidt wrote:<br>
<br>
> Most of what he describes are user errors</div>
<div><br>
Yeah. Conveniently by definition... that's relevant how?<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
by that argument you could also say you want the gas pedal in your
car to be on the left side instead of right and the car should
work how you want it to work.</blockquote>
<br>
You give arbitrary changes which are functionally equivalent, he
gave meaningful descriptions of why those things are bad.<br>
He thinks the program deviates too much from some (more or less) UI
standards,<br>
wheras your example demands gross deviation from THE (probably
legally enforced) standard.<br>
So, bad example - and in vain:<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:698854f9-6a9b-550b-1803-1feb269d15cb@gmx.net"
type="cite"> I'd say if you press the brake and expect the car to
accelerate that is a user error. </blockquote>
Beside the point. The reason for his complaints wasn't to get
compensation for a project he botched by using the program wrong.<br>
Describing some mishaps were to illustrate what parts of the program
he has gripes with.<br>
He thinks it is *wrong* that things work like they work, which is
legitimate.<br>
<br>
To go back to your car example: In his eyes, he actually was hitting
the brakes, and the damn thing accelerated. While the yay sayers
there try to tell him that's a good thing.<br>
(that example holds water at least for the usage patterns *not*
involving explicitly named things like (well named) context menu
entries)<br>
<br>
Also, saying "user error!" = "RTFM" is really unconvincing as a
reply to my original reply to the statement "KiCad is really easy to
use".<br>
;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:698854f9-6a9b-550b-1803-1feb269d15cb@gmx.net"
type="cite"> if you want to move a component without breaking the
wire you have to hold the "strg" key on the keyboard... or use "g"
instead of "m"<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Price question: Why would you want a movement function that breaks
wires?<br>
If they do that because they have no command to disconnect wires
from a component, that would be a reason, but not a good one.<br>
The necessity to move objects around while keeping wires intact is
*far* more frequent than that to disconnect wires.<br>
Any sanely designed UI would make this the default action then, and
require explicitly stating the other option for the less frequent
variant.<br>
And that's one of several examples he gave where they broke that
basic rule. A program that makes me do all sorts of unnecessary key
pressing is not my friend.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:698854f9-6a9b-550b-1803-1feb269d15cb@gmx.net"
type="cite"> I don't say it is perfect and I admit it still needs
a lot of work in some areas, but I can perfectly work with the
program.<br>
I even think it is much better than for example LT Spice ;) and I
much prefer it over eagle.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
LTspice... well, my demands for fancy stuff aren't that high towards
it. I hack in some circuits to test. Not to document & make
PCBs. So I forgive it its limits editing wise. Wires are handled
stupidly there, that's for sure.<br>
Now EAGLE is a program of an alternate universe where there's always
1989, and established UI standards don't exist.<br>
At least that was my impression ;-) But it probably has
"everything", considering how long that thing has been around, eh?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:698854f9-6a9b-550b-1803-1feb269d15cb@gmx.net"
type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:trinity-353db197-cc5a-4651-9553-122f0d99b524-1501068126968@3capp-gmx-bs61">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;"><br>
<div>
<div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px 5.0px 10.0px;padding:
10.0px 0 10.0px 10.0px;border-left: 2.0px solid
rgb(195,217,229);">
<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;"><br>
<b>Von:</b> "Julian Schmidt" <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:elfenjunge@gmx.net"><elfenjunge@gmx.net></a><br>
<b>An:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [sdiy] Pulsonix PCB design software</div>
<div>
<div style="background-color: rgb(255,255,255);">hmmm...
been using kicad for a few years now.<br>
Most of what he describes are user errors or just
don't happen in the build I use (zooming for example
is always mouse pointer centric).<br>
Ok, I'm using the linux version and take my version
from the latest build and not the old stable branch
that is behind a lot of versions...<br>
<br>
I don't say it is perfect and for sure has some
annoying behaviors, but I really like working with it
and I could not do any PCBs anymore without "push and
shove" and really like that it's currently getting a
spice integration.<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 25.07.2017 um 22:25
schrieb <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:sleepy_dog@gmx.de"
onclick="parent.window.location.href='sleepy_dog@gmx.de';
return false;" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">sleepy_dog@gmx.de</a>:</div>
<blockquote>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
> Kicad might be worth looking into. It's
reliable, easy to work with<br>
<br>
Reeeeally?<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.reddit.com/r/KiCad/comments/41n6c6/i_want_to_love_kicad/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.reddit.com/r/KiCad/comments/41n6c6/i_want_to_love_kicad/</a><br>
<br>
If that's a good sampling of the GUI's typical
"design" choices, "braindead" (like the guy called
it in the last post) seems an apt label.<br>
(alone that going back to center all the time when
zooming, warrants some HARD lashes on the butt)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 25.07.2017 um 21:21 schrieb Gordonjcp:</div>
<blockquote>
<pre>On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 07:37:37PM +0100, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:paula@synth.net" onclick="parent.window.location.href='paula@synth.net'; return false;" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">paula@synth.net</a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote>
<pre>I've heard nothing but good things about it.
I'm tempted to look into it some more as Eagle is getting a bit pricey.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>Kicad might be worth looking into. It's reliable, easy to work with,
doesn't lock your drawings up in proprietary file formats and you can't
argue with the price.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"> </fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Synth-diy@synth-diy.org" onclick="parent.window.location.href='Synth-diy@synth-diy.org'; return false;" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:Synth-diy@synth-diy.org">Synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>
<a
href="http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Synth-diy@synth-diy.org">Synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy">http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Synth-diy@synth-diy.org">Synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy">http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
</body>
</html>