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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Bruno Afonso <bafonso@gmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 6, 2017 3:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bernard Arthur Hutchins Jr; Rob Kam<br>
<b>Cc:</b> synth-diy@synth-diy.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sdiy] Can anyone OCR the AN23.PDF File Here?</font>
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<div dir="ltr">Bernie,
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<div>I'd be happy to have a go using open source software such as tesseract. I feel you cannot tackle this problem without further teaching the classifier for the nuances of this text and constraining of what the possibilities are. I'd like you to rescan a
representative item into tiffs at 300 or 600dpi. You stated that the tiffs would look the same but that is not true. The tiff exports out of AN23.pdf do not have the same quality of the original scanned image (likely tiffs), and this does not help.</div>
<div>****************************************************************</div>
<div>I'm not getting this! In the first place, I do not have any TIFF or even know what it is. More to the point, doing a more detailed scan does NOT equate to more information (fewer errors). There is just so much information in the paper fibers and carbon
particles of the typewritten sheet. (Most people have looked at typed material under a microscope.) Soon you are in the noise (grit) - a blackened or unblackened fiber in a particular instance of a typed character is irrelevant. It's the same as audio sampling
theory. Bandlimiting? Please explain.</div>
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<div>Is the end goal to replace the original image text with just text using a similar font? For me the most useful would be to have OCR'ed most of it so it's searchable. But again, you have not set what you find acceptable or what your goal is. It's ok if
you don't know. You either propose this as a challenge that will never be possible to accomplish (some teachers never want to give students top score) or you compromise and propose a solution that enhances your original pdfs with value worth money for most
people. I find most people would be happy keeping the original scanned text and simply having it OCR'ed to the best possible for their cursory searches. But I may see things different than most people :) In the academic lingo you should provide some ground-truth
examples of what you imagine is a perfect conversion of the AN23.pdf, acceptable or not worth the time. </div>
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<div>I've lost track of any end goal, although clearly there are some who wish for a feeding of EN that is fast, free, and preferably in pill-form so that you don't actually have to study anything. Okay - I exaggerate. But the world does have people who are
collectors (as I said in a WEBNOTE) and don't actually care about content. [ Here is my collection of Beethoven symphonies - some day I may actually listen to one.] <span style="font-size: 10pt;">Being more respectful, people were talking about an e-book
and OCR was necessary. If you are talking about searching text, isn't my PDF already searchable? Third time I've asked this. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 10pt;">**************************************************************************</span></div>
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<div>You can never rely on ONE volunteer, but you can certainly get many excited so over time as a group something is accomplished. </div>
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<div>Sounds warm and fuzzy. Do you really believe this?</div>
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<div>Cheers</div>
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<div>b</div>
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<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 3:11 PM Bernard Arthur Hutchins Jr <<a href="mailto:bah13@cornell.edu" target="_blank">bah13@cornell.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
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<p>Thanks Rob -</p>
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<p>Really makes my point, and I guess I should not rely on volunteers! I don't blame you one bit - just does not work.</p>
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<p>I expect no one else want to try either. If anyone does, don't look at the crib below until after you try. Errors located and circled in red. </p>
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<p><a href="http://electronotes.netfirms.com/AN23Rob.PDF" class="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844OWAAutoLink" id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844LPlnk587417" target="_blank">http://electronotes.netfirms.com/AN23Rob.PDF</a><br>
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<p>Please all, let's agree that the OCR issue is bogus as applied here.</p>
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<p>Bernie</p>
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<div id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Rob Kam <<a href="mailto:robkam@ymail.com" target="_blank">robkam@ymail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 6, 2017 1:51 PM</font></div>
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<div id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, EmojiFont, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols, EmojiFont, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols;">
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<b>To:</b> Bernard Arthur Hutchins Jr<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sdiy] Can anyone OCR the AN23.PDF File Here?</font></div>
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<span id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499355715660_7156">Thanks for the challenge Bernie but no thanks. I don't have the patience to correct the OCR.<br>
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Rob</span></div>
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<b id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499355715660_7151"><span id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499355715660_7150" style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Bernard Arthur Hutchins Jr <<a href="mailto:bah13@cornell.edu" target="_blank">bah13@cornell.edu</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Rob Kam <<a href="mailto:robkam@ymail.com" target="_blank">robkam@ymail.com</a>>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> "<a href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, 6 July 2017, 18:30</font></div>
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<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [sdiy] Can anyone OCR the AN23.PDF File Here?<br>
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Thanks Rob -</div>
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True - the equations are now usable, but slightly more blurred than my original PDF. Likewise, the figures are now OK but of slightly lower quality, which does NOT matter much for hand drawings. </div>
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I did note a lot of OCR misreads in the text. A careful proofing of the text took me 18 minutes and there are 25 errors, some not at all obscure, and about 13 of which I had to look at the original to see what they were supposed to be. (One was hard to detect
since it substituted an Rf for an Ri, a disaster). A full proofread/correction would take at least 30 minutes (188 eight-hour days for 6000 pages). And I wrote this! Almost certainly a volunteer would have more trouble and miss errors.</div>
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In the spirit of no good deed going unpunished, Rob, let me put you on the spot. Take your scan, find and fix the 25 errors. Let us know how easy/hard this was and the time it took, and show your results. </div>
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I will post the "solution" to the "find the errors" this evening if I get the chance.</div>
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Since there is no improvement in the figures/equations, and the text is a serious downgrade, tell me again (anyone) why an OCR/ebook is a good idea here. </div>
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Bernie</div>
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499355715660_7313" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Rob Kam <<a href="mailto:robkam@ymail.com" target="_blank">robkam@ymail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 6, 2017 7:24 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bernard Arthur Hutchins Jr<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sdiy] Can anyone OCR the AN23.PDF File Here?</font>
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<span id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499355715660_7226" style="font-size:11.0pt; color:#1f497d">There’s a second attempt at
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.sdiy.info/AN23b.rtf" id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844LPlnk72125" target="_blank">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:#1f497d; text-decoration:none">http://www.sdiy.info/AN23b.rtf</span></a> converting the equations to images instead, (and still manually tweaking the OCR). It took six minutes to do from the scan/PDF and the text still needs
comparing and correcting against the original.</span></div>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:#1f497d"> </span></div>
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<span id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499355715660_7316" style="font-size:11.0pt; color:#1f497d">There are already experts at this sort of project, at Archive.org who have been doing this for a number of years
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To put my two cents in, the synth DIY community should see whether they are able to raise the funds to compensate (against unsold hardcopy,
<span class="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yiv0105428593SpellE">ebooks</span> etc.) for releasing
<span class="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yiv0105428593SpellE">Electronotes</span> under a non-commercial Creative Commons licence
<a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.0/uk/" target="_blank">https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.0/uk/</a>
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<div class="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yiv0105428593MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:#1f497d"> </span></div>
<div class="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yiv0105428593MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:#1f497d">Rob</span></div>
<div class="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yiv0105428593MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:#1f497d"> </span></div>
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<div class="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yiv0105428593MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> Bernard Arthur Hutchins Jr [mailto:<a href="mailto:bah13@cornell.edu" target="_blank">bah13@cornell.edu</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 July 2017 01:42<br>
<b>To:</b> Rob Kam <<a href="mailto:robkam@ymail.com" target="_blank">robkam@ymail.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:mskala@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca" target="_blank">mskala@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sdiy] Can anyone OCR the AN23.PDF File Here?</span></div>
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<div class="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yiv0105428593MsoNormal"> </div>
<div id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yiv0105428593divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, EmojiFont, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols, EmojiFont, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols, EmojiFont, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols, EmojiFont, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols;">
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<div class="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yiv0105428593MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:black">Tkanks Rob -
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<div class="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yiv0105428593MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:black">But a manual identifications and 5 minutes/page is no good for the small improvement. Still months of 8-hour days to do 6000 pages. My
PDF is still much better already. The equations are still unusable. It makes the same text errors, apparently. Why not just say it just can't do this? Wasn't intended to. </span></div>
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<div class="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yiv0105428593MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:black">Thanks for trying - useful data point! </span></div>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:black">Bernie</span></div>
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<div class="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yiv0105428593MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"> Rob Kam <</span><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:robkam@ymail.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">robkam@ymail.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black">><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 5, 2017 6:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bernard Arthur Hutchins Jr; </span><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:mskala@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">mskala@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"><br>
<b>Cc:</b> </span><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sdiy] Can anyone OCR the AN23.PDF File Here?</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:black">
</span></div>
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<div class="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yiv0105428593MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:#1f497d">Hi Bernie,</span><span style="color:black"></span></div>
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At </span><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.sdiy.info/AN23.rtf" id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yiv0105428593LPlnk309394" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">http://www.sdiy.info/AN23.rtf</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:#1f497d">
this took 10 minutes to OCR with </span><a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiZhc6ZmPPUAhVG6RQKHRHpA1UQFggoMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abbyy.com%2Fen-gb%2Fsupport%2Ffinereader-12%2F&usg=AFQjCNHLOjsz219pjjTDqDytG2Cpm9N90w" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:#1f497d; text-decoration:none">ABBYY
FineReader 12</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:#1f497d">, first manually identifying areas of text vs. images. Obviously it still needs further corrections.
<br>
<br>
Rob</span><span style="color:black"> </span></div>
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