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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Dave Magnuson <abide@dmdrafting.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 6, 2017 4:32 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Bruno Afonso'; Bernard Arthur Hutchins Jr; 'Rob Kam'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> synth-diy@synth-diy.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sdiy] Can anyone OCR the AN23.PDF File Here?</font>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Is it possible to leave the scans as images and just have someone add some sort of metadata to each page instead? Then you’d
be searching through perhaps a dozen or two “keywords” per page instead of the actual document text.
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Just a thought… I’ve had terrible luck with OCR myself, except on the most simple of scans.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Dave
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Thanks Dave -</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">I believe so. I believe my original PDF is searchable already. But some seem to want an ebook - perhaps not appreciating what 6000 pages look like. </span></font><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Even
that is a major project because of he lack of </span><span style="font-size: 14.6667px;">organization</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> and condition of my originals.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">I feel that OCR is quite useless here. One guy here said there were only 3 errors in the OCR submitted - there were 25. Real world wins. </span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Bernie</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bruno Afonso<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 6, 2017 3:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bernard Arthur Hutchins Jr; Rob Kam<br>
<b>Cc:</b> synth-diy@synth-diy.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sdiy] Can anyone OCR the AN23.PDF File Here?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I'd be happy to have a go using open source software such as tesseract. I feel you cannot tackle this problem without further teaching the classifier for the nuances of this text and constraining of what the possibilities are. I'd like
you to rescan a representative item into tiffs at 300 or 600dpi. You stated that the tiffs would look the same but that is not true. The tiff exports out of AN23.pdf do not have the same quality of the original scanned image (likely tiffs), and this does not
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<p class="MsoNormal">Is the end goal to replace the original image text with just text using a similar font? For me the most useful would be to have OCR'ed most of it so it's searchable. But again, you have not set what you find acceptable or what your goal
is. It's ok if you don't know. You either propose this as a challenge that will never be possible to accomplish (some teachers never want to give students top score) or you compromise and propose a solution that enhances your original pdfs with value worth
money for most people. I find most people would be happy keeping the original scanned text and simply having it OCR'ed to the best possible for their cursory searches. But I may see things different than most people :) In the academic lingo you should provide
some ground-truth examples of what you imagine is a perfect conversion of the AN23.pdf, acceptable or not worth the time. </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">You can never rely on ONE volunteer, but you can certainly get many excited so over time as a group something is accomplished. </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">b</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 3:11 PM Bernard Arthur Hutchins Jr <<a href="mailto:bah13@cornell.edu" target="_blank">bah13@cornell.edu</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">Thanks Rob -</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">Really makes my point, and I guess I should not rely on volunteers! I don't blame you one bit - just does not work.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">I expect no one else want to try either. If anyone does, don't look at the crib below until after you try. Errors located and circled in red. </span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black"><a href="http://electronotes.netfirms.com/AN23Rob.PDF" target="_blank" id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844LPlnk587417">http://electronotes.netfirms.com/AN23Rob.PDF</a></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">Please all, let's agree that the OCR issue is bogus as applied here.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">Bernie</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:black"> Rob Kam <<a href="mailto:robkam@ymail.com" target="_blank">robkam@ymail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 6, 2017 1:51 PM</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black"></span></p>
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<b>To:</b> Bernard Arthur Hutchins Jr<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sdiy] Can anyone OCR the AN23.PDF File Here?</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Lucida Console"; color:black">Thanks for the challenge Bernie but no thanks. I don't have the patience to correct the OCR.<br>
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Rob</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499355715660_7151"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">
Bernard Arthur Hutchins Jr <<a href="mailto:bah13@cornell.edu" target="_blank">bah13@cornell.edu</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> Rob Kam <<a href="mailto:robkam@ymail.com" target="_blank">robkam@ymail.com</a>>
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<b>Cc:</b> "<a href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 6 July 2017, 18:30</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black"></span></p>
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<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sdiy] Can anyone OCR the AN23.PDF File Here?</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">Thanks Rob -</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">True - the equations are now usable, but slightly more blurred than my original PDF. Likewise, the figures are now OK but of slightly
lower quality, which does NOT matter much for hand drawings. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">I did note a lot of OCR misreads in the text. A careful proofing of the text took me 18 minutes and there are 25 errors, some not at
all obscure, and about 13 of which I had to look at the original to see what they were supposed to be. (One was hard to detect since it substituted an Rf for an Ri, a disaster). A full proofread/correction would take at least 30 minutes (188 eight-hour days
for 6000 pages). And I wrote this! Almost certainly a volunteer would have more trouble and miss errors.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">In the spirit of no good deed going unpunished, Rob, let me put you on the spot. Take your scan, find and fix the 25 errors. Let us
know how easy/hard this was and the time it took, and show your results. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">I will post the "solution" to the "find the errors" this evening if I get the chance.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">Since there is no improvement in the figures/equations, and the text is a serious downgrade, tell me again (anyone) why an OCR/ebook
is a good idea here. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:black"> Rob Kam <<a href="mailto:robkam@ymail.com" target="_blank">robkam@ymail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 6, 2017 7:24 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bernard Arthur Hutchins Jr<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sdiy] Can anyone OCR the AN23.PDF File Here?</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">There’s a second attempt at
<a href="http://www.sdiy.info/AN23b.rtf" target="_blank" id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844LPlnk72125">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:#1F497D; text-decoration:none">http://www.sdiy.info/AN23b.rtf</span></a> converting the equations to images instead, (and still manually tweaking the OCR). It took six minutes to do from the scan/PDF and the text still needs
comparing and correcting against the original.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">There are already experts at this sort of project, at Archive.org who have been doing this for a number of years
<a href="https://archive.org/details/texts&tab=about" target="_blank" id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844LPlnk637705">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:#1F497D; text-decoration:none">https://archive.org/details/texts&tab=about</span></a>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:15.0pt"><span style="font-size:16.0pt; font-family:"Segoe UI Light","sans-serif"; color:#B31B1B"><a href="https://archive.org/details/texts&tab=about" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none">Free Books : Download
& Streaming : eBooks and Texts ...</span></a></span></p>
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<div id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844LPMetadata_14993670741280.7021146677640517" style="margin-top:7.5pt; margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:15.0pt; line-height:10.5pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"; color:#666666"><a href="http://archive.org" target="_blank">archive.org</a></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:15.0pt; line-height:15.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"; color:#666666">The Internet Archive offers over 12,000,000 freely downloadable books and texts. There is also a collection
of 550,000 modern eBooks that may be borrowed by anyone ...</span></p>
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<table class="MsoNormalTable" border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="90%" style="width:90.0%; background:white; border-top:dotted #C8C8C8 1.0pt; border-left:none; border-bottom:dotted #C8C8C8 1.0pt; border-right:none">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:15.0pt"><span style="font-size:16.0pt; font-family:"Segoe UI Light","sans-serif"; color:#B31B1B"><a href="https://archive.org/details/texts&tab=about" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none">Free Books : Download
& Streaming : eBooks and Texts ...</span></a></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yiv0105428593LPMetadata_14993575599640.4270309974458135" style="margin-top:7.5pt; margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:15.0pt; line-height:10.5pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"; color:#666666"><a href="http://archive.org" target="_blank">archive.org</a></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yiv0105428593LPDescription_14993575599650.8568978319302971">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:15.0pt; line-height:15.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"; color:#666666">The Internet Archive offers over 12,000,000 freely downloadable books and texts. There is also a collection
of 550,000 modern eBooks that may be borrowed by anyone ...</span></p>
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To put my two cents in, the synth DIY community should see whether they are able to raise the funds to compensate (against unsold hardcopy,
<span class="m-7117098588547062152m6399548960396420844yiv0105428593spelle">ebooks</span> etc.) for releasing
<span class="m-7117098588547062152m6399548960396420844yiv0105428593spelle">Electronotes</span> under a non-commercial Creative Commons licence
<a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.0/uk/" target="_blank">https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.0/uk/</a>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Rob</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black"> Bernard Arthur Hutchins Jr [mailto:<a href="mailto:bah13@cornell.edu" target="_blank">bah13@cornell.edu</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 July 2017 01:42<br>
<b>To:</b> Rob Kam <<a href="mailto:robkam@ymail.com" target="_blank">robkam@ymail.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:mskala@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca" target="_blank">mskala@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sdiy] Can anyone OCR the AN23.PDF File Here?</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">Tkanks Rob -
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">But a manual identifications and 5 minutes/page is no good for the small improvement. Still months of 8-hour days to do 6000 pages.
My PDF is still much better already. The equations are still unusable. It makes the same text errors, apparently. Why not just say it just can't do this? Wasn't intended to. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">Thanks for trying - useful data point! </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">Bernie</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black"> Rob Kam <</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black"><a href="mailto:robkam@ymail.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">robkam@ymail.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 5, 2017 6:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bernard Arthur Hutchins Jr; </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black"><a href="mailto:mskala@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">mskala@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black"><br>
<b>Cc:</b> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black"><a href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sdiy] Can anyone OCR the AN23.PDF File Here?</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Hi Bernie,</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black"></span></p>
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At </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black"><a href="http://www.sdiy.info/AN23.rtf" target="_blank" id="m_-7117098588547062152m_6399548960396420844yiv0105428593LPlnk309394"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">http://www.sdiy.info/AN23.rtf</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">
this took 10 minutes to OCR with </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black"><a href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiZhc6ZmPPUAhVG6RQKHRHpA1UQFggoMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abbyy.com%2Fen-gb%2Fsupport%2Ffinereader-12%2F&usg=AFQjCNHLOjsz219pjjTDqDytG2Cpm9N90w" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:#1F497D; text-decoration:none">ABBYY
FineReader 12</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">, first manually identifying areas of text vs. images. Obviously it still needs further corrections.
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Rob</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">
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