<div dir="ltr">Big thanks to everyone for your suggestions and feedback. I am looking at every option that gets mentioned. <div><br></div><div>><span style="font-size:12.8px">Yes, nearly every significant product that has DSP is based on SHARC or TMS320. Even Pro Tools hardware has migrated from Motorola 56k to TMS320.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">thanks Brian (and Cheater). So I take it that the "grown-up" way to do DSP on these is in assembly language, but at least for TMS320 one can go fully with C.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">The difficulty is that I'm not aware of hand-holdy resources for successfully programming these chips. The manuals I've found clearly presume a more general professional background in hardware programming; for example the <a href="http://www.analog.com/media/en/dsp-documentation/processor-manuals/ADSP-2136x_2137x_214xx_pgr_rev2.4.pdf">SHARC Processor Programming Reference</a> not very helpfully says</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><i>The primary audience for this manual is a programmer who is familiar</i></span></div><div><i><span style="font-size:12.8px">with Analog Devices processors. [..</span><span style="font-size:12.8px">.] Programmers who are unfamiliar with Analog Devices processors </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">[...] should supplement it with [...] </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">programming reference manuals that describe their target </span></i><i style="font-size:12.8px">architecture.</i></div></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">And this helps clarify the core thing for me---it is not that I insist on using a Max-style GUI. I've already gotten help from Max in learning about modular-synthesis basics, and now </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">I'm willing to code in C, say (though I hope not assembly, for the time being). But at this point, given the extra challenges/hurdles of hardware programming, I still want frameworks that *either* have a simplified GUI/script, *or* have supporting tutorials with more specific, friendly guidance through all the setup steps with complete examples.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"> </span><br></div><div>I have that for the Atmel AVR / Atmega chips in the form of Elliot Williams' book, but these things are apparently not powerful enough to go far beyond simple chipsounds, and the book is mostly about non-DSP applications. So I'm studying in the hope that the skills will transfer, but without a clear plan.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>><span style="font-size:12.8px">I think you're asking for the moon on a stick :)</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Paula, yes I am :) and thanks for at least humoring me. </span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">But I do so because I've already seen R Pi and other projects deliver amazingly cheap hardware solutions that are also friendly enough for hobbyists. The fact that DSP lags behind may be largely due to its niche/specialized status for hobbyists (combined with its having higher processing needs than many other DIY projects). </span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">When I see how cheap the core DSP chips are on industry sites, the whole thing practically begs to be done cheaper than the Axoloti. I should also stress, I am happy to pay significant up-front costs for developer software (including proprietary software, if it is reasonably friendly / interoperable), expert advice, </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">books,</span><span style="font-size:12.8px"> </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">etc.; but I do hope to ultimately see lower per-unit costs. </span>Maybe I am still missing part of the cost equation, but I still wanted to ask.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>><span style="font-size:12.8px">So you want an open source set of libraries that are optomised for your specific CPU.</span></div><span class="gmail-im" style="font-size:12.8px"><div><span class="gmail-im" style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></span></div><div><span class="gmail-im" style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">>You want a nice "gui" based development tool chain written by someone else?</span><br></span></div><div><span class="gmail-im" style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Ideally yes, and hey, thought I'd ask; but see the above. Also, they don't need to be highly optimized for my specific CPU, just adequate for doing fun things. "Sounds amazing" wasn't on my requirements list, although I do want to go beyond chiptune-style synthesis. And if there are a small number of industry-leading DSP chips then yes, I would hope to use nice dev libraries / tool chains.</span></div></span><div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Best, </div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>PS. congrats Leonardo on your awesome Vult logo :)<br><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Leonardo Laguna <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:modlfo@gmail.com" target="_blank">modlfo@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Hi Andy,<br><br></div>I have been using Teensy boards with it's Audio Adaptor and I'm quite happy with the combination. If you like arduinos then it's a good choice because you can get good audio quality and the board has good power.<br><br></div>To make the programming of the board more abstract I use Vult <a href="https://modlfo.github.io/vult/" target="_blank">https://modlfo.github.io/vult/</a> , the programming language I develop. Some people has compared my language to Gen in Max, but I provide some cool features that are very useful for programming 32 bit microcontrollers.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br><br></font></span></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div>Leonardo<br></div></font></span></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 4:47 AM, Andy Drucker <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:andy.drucker@gmail.com" target="_blank">andy.drucker@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5"><div dir="ltr">I have followed Terry's announcement about Audio Weaver Lite with interest, as well as web discussions of related tools like SigmaStudio, because I am shopping around for something similar. My question is quite broad and not so well-formed, but let me describe where I'm at because I think there are significant numbers of people in a similar place and there is a big opportunity to make rich sound projects more accessible for makers/tinkerers. Any advice on choosing a framework would be greatly appreciated.<div><br></div><div>I am ~1 year into the synths/DSP/DIY realms as a hobby---much less experienced than most commenters. My best experiences so far have been in Max/MSP, where I enjoy the easy interplay between signal processing and logical control flow (although I would sometimes prefer a more imperative-programming style control). I really like the potential for interaction and creative algorithmic music and synthesis. </div><div><br></div><div>But on the use/performance side, I would rather interact with a fun physical device away from the PC. Being able to stick it into a hardware-synth signal chain would also be a plus. And most of all, I would like to be able to design and produce instruments and sound-toys that a wide range of folks could enjoy playing with.</div><div><br></div><div>I am somewhat familiar with Arduino and R Pi. However, it appears that plain Arduino is quite weak for DSP, and pi has weaknesses stemming from using so much of its juice to run general Linux. </div><div><br></div><div>My main wish-list for a hardware platform + programming framework is:</div><div><br></div><div>1. should have ready-made DSP primitives, at least sufficient to make a subtractive synth (osc/filters/LFO/ADSR). Ideally want real-time frequency-domain stuff.</div><div><br></div><div>2. should also allow for some patcher-style logical control flow, and, easy interaction with sensors, buttons, etc. producing control information. (This is where I am less clear how e.g. Audio Weaver or SigmaStudio would rate.)</div><div><br></div><div>3. limited involvement in the details of hardware chips. I am not opposed to learning more about hardware, in fact I'm enjoying E. Williams' book on AVR programming, but still want to be able to abstract away from too many details of this stuff. Arduino and Axoloti seem like good examples of doing this well. Other tools seem more aimed at professional electronics designers, which is a concern.</div><div><br></div><div>4. finally, and no small thing, I would like to be able to make devices cheap enough to easily give away. Let me not give a hard budget, but suggest that e.g. Axoloti is quite a stretch at 65 EUR (and also a bit bulky for toys). A shame since I think it meets my other requirements.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Again for reference, frameworks I've been reading about include:<br></div><div><br></div><div>-SigmaStudio or Audio Weaver in conjunction with appropriate chips</div><div><br></div><div>-various combos of Arduino and R Pi with sound cards and other peripherals, e.g. the pisound project, e.g. to run Pure Data on a Pi</div><div><br></div><div>-Axoloti</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks!</div><span class="m_5720198520104229760HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div>Andy </div></font></span></div>
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