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<p>To each their own. I have observed a thing about pcb layout:
everyone has a method/cad package they really like, and another
they really hate. I like Eagle and hate, um, can't remember its
name. I have seen folks use MS Paint to do layouts. Shucks, when
I started they were still doing layups with acetates and colored
tape. You find a tool you can afford and can get along with, and
go for it. I use Visio for front panel mockups. How weird is that?</p>
<p>--tr</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/20/2016 4:01 PM, Tom Wiltshire
wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:5D5CC737-5638-4C99-A935-06B8754CE23F@electricdruid.net"
type="cite">
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David,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's truly remarkable that you put up with such a hideously
involved method. I mean, I know how these things evolve, so I
completely understand how you got there, but if you stand back
and look at what you're doing, given the software that's
available, it doesn't make any sense. At the time, you used the
tool you had. Then you used the tool you'd used before, and
developed it. Before you know it, you're doing full-scale
layouts in a tool designed for something completely different,
with none of the benefits of a tool designed for the job.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Honestly, try one of the options that have been mentioned.
I'd put in a shout in for RS' Designspark too, although maybe
they don't have such a presence on your side of the pond. I
don't use it (I'm on DipTrace which has already been
mentioned, and which I'd also recommend) but I've heard lots
of good things from people who do.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Tom</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 20 Oct 2016, at 04:40, David G Dixon <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dixon@mail.ubc.ca">dixon@mail.ubc.ca</a>>
wrote:</div>
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<div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span
class="905492003-20102016"><font face="Arial"
color="#0000ff" size="2">Hi Quincas,</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span
class="905492003-20102016"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span
class="905492003-20102016"><font face="Arial"
color="#0000ff" size="2">I have made a bunch of
little graphics in Excel, using just rectangles,
lines of various colours, etc, which represent
chips, resistors, caps, diodes, etc, with their
leads and pins. The first thing I do is set the
grid to 16 x 16 pixels so that the spreadsheet
cells are all little squares. Each square
represents 0.1". Then I select "Snap to Grid"
in the Drawing menu so that when I move the
parts around they snap to the 0.1" grid. Then I
just do the layout by pure blunt force by
carefully working through the schematic.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span
class="905492003-20102016"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span
class="905492003-20102016"><font face="Arial"
color="#0000ff" size="2">The layouts are
facilitated by sticking to a certain basic
plan. The power rails go down the middle of the
board from left to right, and all the chips
straddle these rails. Hence, the first row of
pads next to the rails accommodate the chip
pins. The next rows of pads are for things that
connect between adjacent chip pins, like small
stability caps in opamp feedback loops. The
next pads are for components connecting out from
the chips, such as resistors and diodes. These
are all 0.4" long, and thereby straddle
three potential rows of traces and/or pads.
I call this three-lane conduit the "boulevard"
and it is through here that I route signals
around the board. Beyond that is a row of pads
for the other end of all the resistors and
diodes, and then a row of pads for off-board
connectors, and finally a ground trace which
typically encircles the entire board. The
boards are arranged symmetrically around the
rails. This means that all of my analog boards
are either 2.1" wide, or 4.0" wide for
"double-wide" boards (which share a ground trace
down the middle between the two halves).</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span
class="905492003-20102016"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span
class="905492003-20102016"><font face="Arial"
color="#0000ff" size="2">Once I've got the
layout done, connecting all the parts with
different coloured traces (lines with ball ends
in Excel), and the layout is reviewed and
error-free, then I copy this layout to make
several different graphics. One is
"parts-only", one is "traces-only", and one is
"pads only". The "traces-only" graphic is made
up of all the traces in the layout, and is made
up of several layers of lines. All traces are
made up of three layers of lines, with ball ends
of various sizes to make up pads, and smaller
lines with small ball-ends on every line to give
rounded corners. Finally, all power and
ground traces are copied and made wider than
other traces. These are all consolidated into a
single graphic. The "pads-only" graphic is made
up of small circles combined with larger
invisible squares to force them to align on the
grid. These small circles sit over the ball
ends of the traces, and exist to provide small
drill-guide holes for the pads for easy
drilling.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span
class="905492003-20102016"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span
class="905492003-20102016"><font face="Arial"
color="#0000ff" size="2">Finally, the pads and
traces are turned black and combined to make the
transfer graphic. This is what is printed and
transferred onto the PCB. Finally finally, the
transfer graphic is covered with a
semi-transparent white rectangle, and then
the "parts-only" graphic is superimposed on
this, and that makes the "build pic" which is
actually what the completed board will look
like. I use this graphic when I'm stuffing the
board.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span
class="905492003-20102016"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span
class="905492003-20102016"><font face="Arial"
color="#0000ff" size="2">Sorry, that was long,
and probably hard to follow. I'll just email
you an example so you can see for yourself.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span
class="905492003-20102016"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span
class="905492003-20102016"><font face="Arial"
color="#0000ff" size="2">Dave</font></span></div>
<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT:
0px" dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr" class="OutlookMessageHeader"
align="left" lang="en-us">
<hr tabindex="-1"> <font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b>
Quincas Moreira [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:quincas@">mailto:quincas@</a><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gmail.com">gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 19, 2016 7:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> David G Dixon<br>
<b>Cc:</b> KA4HJH; sdiy<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sdiy] PC board from
artwork?<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">David, could you describe how you lay
out PCBs in Excel? very curious :)<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at
7:36 PM, David G Dixon <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dixon@mail.ubc.ca"
target="_blank">dixon@mail.ubc.ca</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid;
MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class="gmail_quote">Hi Terry,<br>
<br>
I can rework the layout to accommodate more
typical quad opamps such as<br>
TL074. This is actually very easy for me to
do. I do it in Excel. With<br>
the graphic and the schematic from the
article, I can reproduce the layout<br>
in Excel very quickly and then manipulate the
layout to change the opamp<br>
pinouts. No problem.<br>
<br>
I could also add some sine shapers if
required. I have a nice design for<br>
sine shapers which I could basically drop onto
the board. It would get a<br>
tiny bit bigger, though.<br>
<span class="im HOEnZb"><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:synth-diy-bounces@dropmix.xs4all.nl">synth-diy-bounces@<wbr>dropmix.xs4all.nl</a>]<br>
> On Behalf Of KA4HJH<br>
</span><span class="im HOEnZb">> Sent:
Wednesday, October 19, 2016 4:44 PM<br>
> To: sdiy<br>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] PC board from
artwork?<br>
><br>
><br>
</span>
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5">> > On Oct 19, 2016,
at 5:57 PM, Byron G. Jacquot<br>
> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:thescum@surfree.com">thescum@surfree.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > I'd be happy to redraw it in
Eagle, and generate Gerbers,<br>
> if it comes to that. It'd be a quick
hour or so. You'd<br>
> still have to find somewhere to fab
'em - I typically use<br>
> OSHPark or Advanced Circuits.<br>
> ><br>
> > It's worth noting that the
original design uses 4136's, but<br>
> might be more useful if they were
swapped to the more common<br>
> quad op-amp package.<br>
><br>
> That was one of the main changes I
would make if, in my dream<br>
> world, I could actually redo the
whole thing. Fortunately I<br>
> have lots of 4136s.<br>
><br>
> The other thing is that it might be
interesting to put sine<br>
> shapers on the oscillators that form
the Lissajous baseline.<br>
> I don't know how it would look with
an ellipse instead of a rhomboid.<br>
><br>
><br>
> > On Oct 19, 2016, at 5:40 PM,
David G Dixon<br>
> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dixon@mail.ubc.ca">dixon@mail.ubc.ca</a>>
wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > I would be happy to make one for
you, Terry. I make my own<br>
> boards all<br>
> > the time, and sell quite a few
of them to other hobbyists.<br>
> ><br>
> > I have one or two questions
about the layout graphic, but<br>
> we can deal<br>
> > with that if you decide you want
me to do it.<br>
><br>
> This list is getting more helpful all
the time. I need to get<br>
> past Halloween before doing anything
but after that...<br>
><br>
><br>
> > On Oct 19, 2016, at 5:54 PM,
Dave Manley <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dlmanley@sonic.net">dlmanley@sonic.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > Egads, I remember reading that
article in my high school<br>
> library when it was first published.<br>
> ><br>
> > ObSdiyContent: it must have
been about the same time<br>
> PAiA's 2700 was in
Radio-Electronics...<br>
><br>
> Yep, I was a subscriber when I was in
high school. I really<br>
> wanted to build one. It only took me
a couple of decades to<br>
> get around to it.<br>
><br>
> The dog-eared magazine is in the next
room right now. The pdf<br>
> article on my blog is a recreation of
the original, OCRed and<br>
> reset in the original typeface.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH<br>
> "The Mac Doctor"<br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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</blockquote>
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<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Quincas Moreira<br>
Test Pilot at VBrazil Modular</div>
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<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
--Tim Ressel
Circuit Abbey
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:timr@circuitabbey.com">timr@circuitabbey.com</a></pre>
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