<html><body><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><div><br>I realize that they are low cost synths. This is getting totally away from the point though.<br></div>
<blockquote id="replyBlockquote" webmail="1" style="border-left: 2px solid blue; margin-left: 8px; padding-left: 8px; font-size:10pt; color:black; font-family:verdana;">
<div id="wmQuoteWrapper">
-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Ways for innovation<br>
From: Simon Brouwer <<a href="mailto:simon.o@brousant.nl">simon.o@brousant.nl</a>><br>
Date: Fri, January 22, 2016 12:14 pm<br>
To: synth-diy DIY <<a href="mailto:synth-diy@dropmix.xs4all.nl">synth-diy@dropmix.xs4all.nl</a>>, Rutger Vlek<br>
<<a href="mailto:rutgervlek@gmail.com">rutgervlek@gmail.com</a>>, <a href="mailto:spivkurl@wearerecords.com">spivkurl@wearerecords.com</a><br>
<br>
<div>Well there is another important difference... these instruments can be had for a fraction of the cost. </div> <div> </div> <div>The most expensive of those instruments is avalable for less than 400 euro. It does not seem realistic to pay so little, and then expect them to last even 10 years, especially with regular use. </div> <div> </div> <div>Best regards</div> <div>Simon</div> <div> </div> <blockquote type="cite" style="position: relative; margin-left: 0px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: solid 1px blue;">Op 22 januari 2016 om 17:12 schreef <a href="mailto:spivkurl@wearerecords.com">spivkurl@wearerecords.com</a>:<br><br> <div>You are correct on this point, however there is one important difference... The instruments of today seem to be built to fail, just like much of the other items being manufactured. The craftsmanship and quality which went into the Minimoog has very little comparison with modern electronic instruments. I would love to see, forty years from now, how many Volca's, Microbrutes, and microkorgs (as examples) are still functional. I know my microkorg, which was purchased new around 2002, is pretty much reduced to a module now. The keybed began to fail within a couple years of regular use. Also, in the time of the Minimoog, there were very few options for entry level electronic instruments. I wasn't really speaking of an instrument which costs $1795 as being a toy though.<br><br></div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid blue; margin-left: 8px; padding-left: 8px; font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: verdana;"> <div id="wmQuoteWrapper">-------- Original Message --------<br> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Ways for innovation<br> From: Simon Brouwer <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:simon.o@brousant.nl">simon.o@brousant.nl</a>><br> Date: Fri, January 22, 2016 9:55 am<br> To: synth-diy DIY <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:synth-diy@dropmix.xs4all.nl">synth-diy@dropmix.xs4all.nl</a>>, Rutger Vlek<br> <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:rutgervlek@gmail.com">rutgervlek@gmail.com</a>>, <a target="_blank" href="mailto:spivkurl@wearerecords.com">spivkurl@wearerecords.com</a><br> <br> <div>Hi,</div> <div> </div> <div>But you have to consider the low cost of those "toy" instruments...</div> <div> </div> <div>I found mention of the original price tag of a Minimoog, in 1975: "$1795 CDN (which would be roughly equivalent to US dollars in those days)."</div> <div>According to <a target="_blank" href="http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1795&year1=1975&year2=2015">http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1795&year1=1975&year2=2015</a> that amount, corrected for inflation, would amount to almost 8000$.</div> <div> </div> <div>Even for the original 1795$ you can still buy pretty serious musical instruments, let alone for 8000$.</div> <div> </div> <div>Best regards</div> <div> </div> <blockquote type="cite" style="position: relative; margin-left: 0px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: solid 1px blue;">Op 22 januari 2016 om 16:27 schreef <a target="_blank" href="mailto:spivkurl@wearerecords.com">spivkurl@wearerecords.com</a>:<br><br> <div>My feelings on this are definitely related to the mobile, single serve, throw away culture which has taken over. There a far more people creating music (with varying degrees of success) on their phones and laptops, than there are people using real hands on instruments these days. No matter how often I try to explain to people that a piece of software cannot recreate a performance on a real instrument, I always have a bunch of people snapping at me... they express their unfounded claims about how a digital waveform is that same or "higher resolution" (uh I hate that) than an analog waveform... they talk about the challenges of recording a real instrument... they talk about the cost. For me, it all seems like bad priorities, both for the musicians and the companies selling things for making music. Being a hobbyist and being a serious musician are generally two different things (money making completely aside). A huge amount of people want to skip from being a hobbyist to being a famous "producer" (I hate that too), and they don't seem to know the first thing about the process to get from point A to point B, nor are they willing to make investments of time, practise, and money. These things will have to change for the whole idea of electronic music/instruments to change. I can see glimpses of it from time to time, for example the resurgence and diversification of synth modules available. Many electronic instruments made recently seem barely better than toys, and sometimes worse (in the case of vintage toys). If you can't even bother to put a line out on your synthesizer, then maybe you should not to be making synthesizers... am I right?<br><br></div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid blue; margin-left: 8px; padding-left: 8px; font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: verdana;"> <div id="wmQuoteWrapper">-------- Original Message --------<br> Subject: [sdiy] Ways for innovation<br> From: Rutger Vlek <<a href="mailto:rutgervlek@gmail.com" target="_blank">rutgervlek@gmail.com</a>><br> Date: Fri, January 22, 2016 8:32 am<br> To: synth-diy DIY <<a href="mailto:synth-diy@dropmix.xs4all.nl" target="_blank">synth-diy@dropmix.xs4all.nl</a>><br> <br> Hi guys,<br> <br> I've been reflecting on business and innovation in the music branch a lot lately, and also discussing with friends and I thought it might be nice to see how people respond here.<br> <br> The thoughts were basically coming from an evening of joy with my Nord Modular G2, which I think is one of the most ground braking synths in recent years. With ground braking I mean... musically. Recently synths have become more affordable and more portable, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about really new sounds, new ways of musical expression, a next step for the synthesizer as a musical instrument. However, the Nord Modular G2 sold rather badly, and production was stopped prematurely if my sources are correct. Recently, prices on the second hand market have been going up again, so in time the innovation is appreciated.<br> <br> This leads me to believe that the market for an truly innovative product is very small, until it has really been adopted as the new standard (MiniMoog anyone). This also means, financially, there's very little motivation for companies to innovate. So I was thinking, what about crowd-sourcing innovation or making a platform that supports this? In a way, this is already happening with all the open-source projects and knowledge sharing on fora like muffwiggler. But I feel a hardware platform is lacking for these innovations to reach the less scientific of us who just like to "play"!<br> <br> One of my personal pains is the lack of alternative to MIDI. Why, in this modern era, is there still no high-resolution version of MIDI standardized? <br> <br> The other is: why is there so little hardware that helps integrating the hard work of the many DSP hobbyist making great code. Where is that hybrid synth with an open-sourced FX engine?<br> <br> Why does my 150 dollar phone have a better screen than my 3000 dollar synth?<br> <br> And my last personal pain: why is hardware life span so short on present commercial products? If I have a synth with a great keyboard with aftertouch (which is removed from more and more keyboards as a cost-saving measure) and a lovely set of controllers, why throw the hole thing, while the only part that needs an upgrade is the CPU board + DAC to support the latest audio quality and CPU-hogging new algorithms?<br> <br> I like to be realistic about things financially, but this is my musicians heart speaking.<br> <br> I'd be interested to hear your thoughts! <br> <br> Rutger<br> _______________________________________________<br> Synth-diy mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:Synth-diy@dropmix.xs4all.nl" target="_blank">Synth-diy@dropmix.xs4all.nl</a><br> <a href="http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy" target="_blank">http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy</a></div> </blockquote> </blockquote> <div><br> </div> <blockquote type="cite" style="position: relative; margin-left: 0px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: solid 1px blue;">_______________________________________________ Synth-diy mailing list <a target="_blank" href="mailto:Synth-diy@dropmix.xs4all.nl">Synth-diy@dropmix.xs4all.nl</a> <a target="_blank" href="http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy">http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy</a></blockquote> <div><br> </div> </div> </blockquote> </blockquote> <div><br> </div>
</div>
</blockquote></span></body></html>