From mr at analogue.org  Thu Jun  4 12:52:31 2026
From: mr at analogue.org (Mattias Rickardsson)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 12:52:31 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
Message-ID: <CAP92RBWxZhnAaTCLTxTJgfkvt0H5q2F=8Q9JBccymfr-jcD8Ug@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

Do any manufacturers intentionally design their MIDI Outs to improve
reliability with MIDI-driven devices?

Even though the MIDI standard only specifies communication, some gadgets
use it for driving electronics by the voltage and current typically
appearing on a MIDI Out. Like CME WIDI Master etc, adding Bluetooth MIDI in
a plug directly on the MIDI port, and in many other hobby projects and
commercial products throughout the years.
https://www.cme-pro.com/widi-master/

The MIDI standard allows quite wide tolerances on everything: Supply
voltage +5V +/-10%, resistors +/- 5%. Hence, the possible voltages and
currents available for a MIDI-driven device can differ quite a lot, at
least in theory and in older equipment. Moreover, the MIDI Out can also run
off a +3.3V +/-5% supply with low-valued resistors, potentially allowing
more current if more than MIDI's 5 mA is sucked out, but also never giving
anywhere near 5 V (or even 4 V) in low-current situations. There seem to be
observations of certain external devices not working on certain MIDI gear,
which is not very unexpected given the out-of-spec application.

For example I'm thinking that it would be possible and fully allowed to
choose 1% resistors near the more current-generous end of the 5% spec
range, and then give slightly more current and/or higher voltage to an
external device, while still being compliant with the MIDI spec (and
hopefully well-working with all MIDI In ports). There are also other
potential tweaks to the MIDI Outs, optimizing its use for certain "illegal"
operations. The driving voltage can be tweaked to give more current or more
voltage at certain non-MIDI-typical usecases, and I guess the MIDI Out
could also be designed more as a true current source than the logic buffer
with output resistors shown in the spec.

Now that the MIDI spec has allowed both 3.3V and TRS since some years back,
it should have triggered more innovation and I figured some of you might
have encountered some interesting concepts and design variations. :-)

Curious regards,
/mr
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From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Thu Jun  4 13:46:33 2026
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 12:46:33 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
In-Reply-To: <CAP92RBWxZhnAaTCLTxTJgfkvt0H5q2F=8Q9JBccymfr-jcD8Ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP92RBWxZhnAaTCLTxTJgfkvt0H5q2F=8Q9JBccymfr-jcD8Ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxKgLkGAUtXDH8qDFLCAd0GOvJ4nUcNQwQNifGasoMz9MQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mattias,

The MIDI spec was never about voltage - it is specified as a 5mA current
loop into a receiver comprising an LED with a series 220 ohm resistor,
giving enough current to turn on the majority of opto-couplers. It just
happens that the reference schematic shown in the MIDI Spec (originally
drafted in 1983) used 5V. The newer specs now also support 3V3 with the
accompanying lower transmitter resistors. I don't believe there is anything
in the spec that would prevent you from selling a device with a MIDI OUT
that worked on -48V and two 4k5 resistors.

Neil

On Thu, 4 Jun 2026 at 12:08, Mattias Rickardsson <mr at analogue.org> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> Do any manufacturers intentionally design their MIDI Outs to improve
> reliability with MIDI-driven devices?
>
> Even though the MIDI standard only specifies communication, some gadgets
> use it for driving electronics by the voltage and current typically
> appearing on a MIDI Out. Like CME WIDI Master etc, adding Bluetooth MIDI in
> a plug directly on the MIDI port, and in many other hobby projects and
> commercial products throughout the years.
> https://www.cme-pro.com/widi-master/
>
> The MIDI standard allows quite wide tolerances on everything: Supply
> voltage +5V +/-10%, resistors +/- 5%. Hence, the possible voltages and
> currents available for a MIDI-driven device can differ quite a lot, at
> least in theory and in older equipment. Moreover, the MIDI Out can also run
> off a +3.3V +/-5% supply with low-valued resistors, potentially allowing
> more current if more than MIDI's 5 mA is sucked out, but also never giving
> anywhere near 5 V (or even 4 V) in low-current situations. There seem to be
> observations of certain external devices not working on certain MIDI gear,
> which is not very unexpected given the out-of-spec application.
>
> For example I'm thinking that it would be possible and fully allowed to
> choose 1% resistors near the more current-generous end of the 5% spec
> range, and then give slightly more current and/or higher voltage to an
> external device, while still being compliant with the MIDI spec (and
> hopefully well-working with all MIDI In ports). There are also other
> potential tweaks to the MIDI Outs, optimizing its use for certain "illegal"
> operations. The driving voltage can be tweaked to give more current or more
> voltage at certain non-MIDI-typical usecases, and I guess the MIDI Out
> could also be designed more as a true current source than the logic buffer
> with output resistors shown in the spec.
>
> Now that the MIDI spec has allowed both 3.3V and TRS since some years
> back, it should have triggered more innovation and I figured some of you
> might have encountered some interesting concepts and design variations. :-)
>
> Curious regards,
> /mr
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Thu Jun  4 13:46:33 2026
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 12:46:33 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
In-Reply-To: <CAP92RBWxZhnAaTCLTxTJgfkvt0H5q2F=8Q9JBccymfr-jcD8Ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP92RBWxZhnAaTCLTxTJgfkvt0H5q2F=8Q9JBccymfr-jcD8Ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxKgLkGAUtXDH8qDFLCAd0GOvJ4nUcNQwQNifGasoMz9MQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mattias,

The MIDI spec was never about voltage - it is specified as a 5mA current
loop into a receiver comprising an LED with a series 220 ohm resistor,
giving enough current to turn on the majority of opto-couplers. It just
happens that the reference schematic shown in the MIDI Spec (originally
drafted in 1983) used 5V. The newer specs now also support 3V3 with the
accompanying lower transmitter resistors. I don't believe there is anything
in the spec that would prevent you from selling a device with a MIDI OUT
that worked on -48V and two 4k5 resistors.

Neil

On Thu, 4 Jun 2026 at 12:08, Mattias Rickardsson <mr at analogue.org> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> Do any manufacturers intentionally design their MIDI Outs to improve
> reliability with MIDI-driven devices?
>
> Even though the MIDI standard only specifies communication, some gadgets
> use it for driving electronics by the voltage and current typically
> appearing on a MIDI Out. Like CME WIDI Master etc, adding Bluetooth MIDI in
> a plug directly on the MIDI port, and in many other hobby projects and
> commercial products throughout the years.
> https://www.cme-pro.com/widi-master/
>
> The MIDI standard allows quite wide tolerances on everything: Supply
> voltage +5V +/-10%, resistors +/- 5%. Hence, the possible voltages and
> currents available for a MIDI-driven device can differ quite a lot, at
> least in theory and in older equipment. Moreover, the MIDI Out can also run
> off a +3.3V +/-5% supply with low-valued resistors, potentially allowing
> more current if more than MIDI's 5 mA is sucked out, but also never giving
> anywhere near 5 V (or even 4 V) in low-current situations. There seem to be
> observations of certain external devices not working on certain MIDI gear,
> which is not very unexpected given the out-of-spec application.
>
> For example I'm thinking that it would be possible and fully allowed to
> choose 1% resistors near the more current-generous end of the 5% spec
> range, and then give slightly more current and/or higher voltage to an
> external device, while still being compliant with the MIDI spec (and
> hopefully well-working with all MIDI In ports). There are also other
> potential tweaks to the MIDI Outs, optimizing its use for certain "illegal"
> operations. The driving voltage can be tweaked to give more current or more
> voltage at certain non-MIDI-typical usecases, and I guess the MIDI Out
> could also be designed more as a true current source than the logic buffer
> with output resistors shown in the spec.
>
> Now that the MIDI spec has allowed both 3.3V and TRS since some years
> back, it should have triggered more innovation and I figured some of you
> might have encountered some interesting concepts and design variations. :-)
>
> Curious regards,
> /mr
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Thu Jun  4 14:29:21 2026
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 12:29:21 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxKgLkGAUtXDH8qDFLCAd0GOvJ4nUcNQwQNifGasoMz9MQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP92RBWxZhnAaTCLTxTJgfkvt0H5q2F=8Q9JBccymfr-jcD8Ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACZGMxKgLkGAUtXDH8qDFLCAd0GOvJ4nUcNQwQNifGasoMz9MQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CWLP265MB71327F7ADDA81742E6AD02C2DB102@CWLP265MB7132.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Agree on the spec, but 48V would destroy many of these Chinese MIDI devices that omit the opto-isolator ?
________________________________
From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of Neil Johnson via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Sent: 04 June 2026 12:46
To: Mattias Rickardsson <mr at analogue.org>
Cc: Synth DIY <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets

Hi Mattias,

The MIDI spec was never about voltage - it is specified as a 5mA current loop into a receiver comprising an LED with a series 220 ohm resistor, giving enough current to turn on the majority of opto-couplers. It just happens that the reference schematic shown in the MIDI Spec (originally drafted in 1983) used 5V. The newer specs now also support 3V3 with the accompanying lower transmitter resistors. I don't believe there is anything in the spec that would prevent you from selling a device with a MIDI OUT that worked on -48V and two 4k5 resistors.

Neil

On Thu, 4 Jun 2026 at 12:08, Mattias Rickardsson <mr at analogue.org<mailto:mr at analogue.org>> wrote:
Hi folks,

Do any manufacturers intentionally design their MIDI Outs to improve reliability with MIDI-driven devices?

Even though the MIDI standard only specifies communication, some gadgets use it for driving electronics by the voltage and current typically appearing on a MIDI Out. Like CME WIDI Master etc, adding Bluetooth MIDI in a plug directly on the MIDI port, and in many other hobby projects and commercial products throughout the years.  https://www.cme-pro.com/widi-master/

The MIDI standard allows quite wide tolerances on everything: Supply voltage +5V +/-10%, resistors +/- 5%. Hence, the possible voltages and currents available for a MIDI-driven device can differ quite a lot, at least in theory and in older equipment. Moreover, the MIDI Out can also run off a +3.3V +/-5% supply with low-valued resistors, potentially allowing more current if more than MIDI's 5 mA is sucked out, but also never giving anywhere near 5 V (or even 4 V) in low-current situations. There seem to be observations of certain external devices not working on certain MIDI gear, which is not very unexpected given the out-of-spec application.

For example I'm thinking that it would be possible and fully allowed to choose 1% resistors near the more current-generous end of the 5% spec range, and then give slightly more current and/or higher voltage to an external device, while still being compliant with the MIDI spec (and hopefully well-working with all MIDI In ports). There are also other potential tweaks to the MIDI Outs, optimizing its use for certain "illegal" operations. The driving voltage can be tweaked to give more current or more voltage at certain non-MIDI-typical usecases, and I guess the MIDI Out could also be designed more as a true current source than the logic buffer with output resistors shown in the spec.

Now that the MIDI spec has allowed both 3.3V and TRS since some years back, it should have triggered more innovation and I figured some of you might have encountered some interesting concepts and design variations. :-)

Curious regards,
/mr
________________________________________________________
This is the Synth-diy mailing list
Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
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From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Thu Jun  4 14:31:10 2026
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 13:31:10 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
In-Reply-To: <CWLP265MB71327F7ADDA81742E6AD02C2DB102@CWLP265MB7132.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <CAP92RBWxZhnAaTCLTxTJgfkvt0H5q2F=8Q9JBccymfr-jcD8Ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACZGMxKgLkGAUtXDH8qDFLCAd0GOvJ4nUcNQwQNifGasoMz9MQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CWLP265MB71327F7ADDA81742E6AD02C2DB102@CWLP265MB7132.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxKo=iTx=LqO6QOx2v8EBADCz5CZu8VHypXR2pApocazEw@mail.gmail.com>

Mike Bryant wrote:

> Agree on the spec, but 48V would destroy many of these Chinese MIDI
> devices that omit the opto-isolator ?
>

Yes - the bonus feature.

Neil
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From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Thu Jun  4 14:31:10 2026
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 13:31:10 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
In-Reply-To: <CWLP265MB71327F7ADDA81742E6AD02C2DB102@CWLP265MB7132.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <CAP92RBWxZhnAaTCLTxTJgfkvt0H5q2F=8Q9JBccymfr-jcD8Ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACZGMxKgLkGAUtXDH8qDFLCAd0GOvJ4nUcNQwQNifGasoMz9MQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CWLP265MB71327F7ADDA81742E6AD02C2DB102@CWLP265MB7132.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxKo=iTx=LqO6QOx2v8EBADCz5CZu8VHypXR2pApocazEw@mail.gmail.com>

Mike Bryant wrote:

> Agree on the spec, but 48V would destroy many of these Chinese MIDI
> devices that omit the opto-isolator ?
>

Yes - the bonus feature.

Neil
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From btremblay at me.com  Thu Jun  4 15:19:44 2026
From: btremblay at me.com (Benjamin Tremblay)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 09:19:44 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxKo=iTx=LqO6QOx2v8EBADCz5CZu8VHypXR2pApocazEw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACZGMxKo=iTx=LqO6QOx2v8EBADCz5CZu8VHypXR2pApocazEw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2741B215-E8B9-446C-BDDF-0C3D800C2D02@me.com>

Why can?t we just develop a new protocol based on cheap UARTs and passive components that runs I dunno 25x faster and works like patch cords instead of hubs, isn?t gated by some consortium, and is backward compatible if you add a cheap adapter?


Benjamin Tremblay

> On Jun 4, 2026, at 8:47?AM, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> ?--===============5548024699760001422==
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c4be9406536cb882"
> 
> --000000000000c4be9406536cb882
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> Mike Bryant wrote:
> 
>> Agree on the spec, but 48V would destroy many of these Chinese MIDI
>> devices that omit the opto-isolator =F0=9F=98=84
>> 
> 
> Yes - the bonus feature.
> 
> Neil
> 
> --000000000000c4be9406536cb882
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Mike Bryant wrote:</div><div class=3D"gma=
> il_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
> margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
> t:1ex"><div class=3D"msg-4663179895464832597">
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <div dir=3D"ltr">
> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali=
> bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
> Agree on the spec, but 48V would destroy many of these Chinese MIDI devices=
> that omit the opto-isolator
> <span id=3D"m_-4663179895464832597=F0=9F=98=84">=F0=9F=98=84</span></div></=
> div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes - the bonus feature.</div><d=
> iv><br></div><div>Neil</div></div></div>
> 
> --000000000000c4be9406536cb882--
> 
> --===============5548024699760001422==
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Disposition: inline
> 
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> --===============5548024699760001422==--


From btremblay at me.com  Thu Jun  4 15:35:40 2026
From: btremblay at me.com (Benjamin Tremblay)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 09:35:40 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
In-Reply-To: <CWLP265MB7132C8E53B4AA50F1077CCC1DB102@CWLP265MB7132.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <CWLP265MB7132C8E53B4AA50F1077CCC1DB102@CWLP265MB7132.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <89C13042-A186-4782-B779-0C323D139D6E@me.com>

If USB wasn?t a hub-based protocol with a built-in cost of adoption. 
The actual wiring for USB is just fine and getting better all the time. What?s wrong for MIDI is this 90s-era idea of a ?peripheral? Zip drive that is powered by your gateway 2000 laptop. All that brilliant design thinking ruined USB for MIDI because a hub is nothing but a toll gate we already paid for and nobody wants. Does anyone really want a hub at all?

Benjamin Tremblay

> On Jun 4, 2026, at 9:30?AM, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> You mean USB ?  ?
> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> Sent: 04 June 2026 14:19
> To: Synth DIY <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
>  
> Why can?t we just develop a new protocol based on cheap UARTs and passive components that runs I dunno 25x faster and works like patch cords instead of hubs, isn?t gated by some consortium, and is backward compatible if you add a cheap adapter?
> 
> 
> Benjamin Tremblay
> 
> > On Jun 4, 2026, at 8:47?AM, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?--===============5548024699760001422==
> > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c4be9406536cb882"
> >
> > --000000000000c4be9406536cb882
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> > Mike Bryant wrote:
> >
> >> Agree on the spec, but 48V would destroy many of these Chinese MIDI
> >> devices that omit the opto-isolator =F0=9F=98=84
> >>
> >
> > Yes - the bonus feature.
> >
> > Neil
> >
> > --000000000000c4be9406536cb882
> > Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> > <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Mike Bryant wrote:</div><div class=3D"gma=
> > il_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
> > margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
> > t:1ex"><div class=3D"msg-4663179895464832597">
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <div dir=3D"ltr">
> > <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali=
> > bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
> > Agree on the spec, but 48V would destroy many of these Chinese MIDI devices=
> > that omit the opto-isolator
> > <span id=3D"m_-4663179895464832597=F0=9F=98=84">=F0=9F=98=84</span></div></=
> > div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes - the bonus feature.</div><d=
> > iv><br></div><div>Neil</div></div></div>
> >
> > --000000000000c4be9406536cb882--
> >
> > --===============5548024699760001422==
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > Content-Disposition: inline
> >
> > ________________________________________________________
> > This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> > Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> > Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
> > --===============5548024699760001422==--
> 
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From nitro2k01 at gmail.com  Thu Jun  4 15:41:59 2026
From: nitro2k01 at gmail.com (Didrik Madheden)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 15:41:59 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
In-Reply-To: <2741B215-E8B9-446C-BDDF-0C3D800C2D02@me.com>
References: <CACZGMxKo=iTx=LqO6QOx2v8EBADCz5CZu8VHypXR2pApocazEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2741B215-E8B9-446C-BDDF-0C3D800C2D02@me.com>
Message-ID: <CABacs=Aw8qyBx0rT5O24Eq_8Wf2n6R0FLS+27d4-n_oCiDyAFw@mail.gmail.com>

We could, but I invoke xkcd #927.

/Didrik

On Thu, 4 Jun 2026, 15:31 Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy, <
synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> Why can?t we just develop a new protocol based on cheap UARTs and passive
> components that runs I dunno 25x faster and works like patch cords instead
> of hubs, isn?t gated by some consortium, and is backward compatible if you
> add a cheap adapter?
>
>
> Benjamin Tremblay
>
> > On Jun 4, 2026, at 8:47?AM, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy <
> synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?--===============5548024699760001422==
> > Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary="000000000000c4be9406536cb882"
> >
> > --000000000000c4be9406536cb882
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> > Mike Bryant wrote:
> >
> >> Agree on the spec, but 48V would destroy many of these Chinese MIDI
> >> devices that omit the opto-isolator =F0=9F=98=84
> >>
> >
> > Yes - the bonus feature.
> >
> > Neil
> >
> > --000000000000c4be9406536cb882
> > Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> > <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Mike Bryant wrote:</div><div
> class=3D"gma=
> > il_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"
> style=3D"=
> > margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
> rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
> > t:1ex"><div class=3D"msg-4663179895464832597">
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <div dir=3D"ltr">
> > <div
> style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali=
> > bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
> > Agree on the spec, but 48V would destroy many of these Chinese MIDI
> devices=
> > that omit the opto-isolator
> > <span
> id=3D"m_-4663179895464832597=F0=9F=98=84">=F0=9F=98=84</span></div></=
> > div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes - the bonus
> feature.</div><d=
> > iv><br></div><div>Neil</div></div></div>
> >
> > --000000000000c4be9406536cb882--
> >
> > --===============5548024699760001422==
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > Content-Disposition: inline
> >
> > ________________________________________________________
> > This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> > Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> > Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
> > --===============5548024699760001422==--
>
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Thu Jun  4 15:57:10 2026
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 13:57:10 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
In-Reply-To: <89C13042-A186-4782-B779-0C323D139D6E@me.com>
References: <CWLP265MB7132C8E53B4AA50F1077CCC1DB102@CWLP265MB7132.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <89C13042-A186-4782-B779-0C323D139D6E@me.com>
Message-ID: <CWLP265MB71328848F5CB7A5768A05374DB102@CWLP265MB7132.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Not sure where you are seeing a hub ?   Most sound generating boxes with USB can operate in either mode so you can plug a keyboard straight in, no hub, PC or anything just as you would with DIN.
________________________________
From: Benjamin Tremblay <btremblay at me.com>
Sent: 04 June 2026 14:35
To: Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com>
Cc: Synth DIY <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets

If USB wasn?t a hub-based protocol with a built-in cost of adoption.
The actual wiring for USB is just fine and getting better all the time. What?s wrong for MIDI is this 90s-era idea of a ?peripheral? Zip drive that is powered by your gateway 2000 laptop. All that brilliant design thinking ruined USB for MIDI because a hub is nothing but a toll gate we already paid for and nobody wants. Does anyone really want a hub at all?

Benjamin Tremblay

On Jun 4, 2026, at 9:30?AM, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:

?
You mean USB ?  ?
________________________________
From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Sent: 04 June 2026 14:19
To: Synth DIY <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets

Why can?t we just develop a new protocol based on cheap UARTs and passive components that runs I dunno 25x faster and works like patch cords instead of hubs, isn?t gated by some consortium, and is backward compatible if you add a cheap adapter?


Benjamin Tremblay

> On Jun 4, 2026, at 8:47?AM, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> ?--===============5548024699760001422==
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c4be9406536cb882"
>
> --000000000000c4be9406536cb882
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Mike Bryant wrote:
>
>> Agree on the spec, but 48V would destroy many of these Chinese MIDI
>> devices that omit the opto-isolator =F0=9F=98=84
>>
>
> Yes - the bonus feature.
>
> Neil
>
> --000000000000c4be9406536cb882
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Mike Bryant wrote:</div><div class=3D"gma=
> il_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
> margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
> t:1ex"><div class=3D"msg-4663179895464832597">
>
>
>
>
> <div dir=3D"ltr">
> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali=
> bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
> Agree on the spec, but 48V would destroy many of these Chinese MIDI devices=
> that omit the opto-isolator
> <span id=3D"m_-4663179895464832597=F0=9F=98=84">=F0=9F=98=84</span></div></=
> div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes - the bonus feature.</div><d=
> iv><br></div><div>Neil</div></div></div>
>
> --000000000000c4be9406536cb882--
>
> --===============5548024699760001422==
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Disposition: inline
>
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> --===============5548024699760001422==--

________________________________________________________
This is the Synth-diy mailing list
Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
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From btremblay at me.com  Thu Jun  4 16:03:09 2026
From: btremblay at me.com (Benjamin Tremblay)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 10:03:09 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
In-Reply-To: <CWLP265MB71328848F5CB7A5768A05374DB102@CWLP265MB7132.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <CWLP265MB71328848F5CB7A5768A05374DB102@CWLP265MB7132.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <153B3763-003F-41D5-A0A4-E9051F7E0838@me.com>

Sorry I should not say hub.
What I mean is HOST.

The host protocol is a tax on developers.

We do not need ?hosts and peripherals?. We need ?cables? connecting devices. 

I can?t just plug one USB C device into another with a USB C cable and expect them to talk to each other. That?s asking too much. That?s what drives me crazy. USB MIDI works great if you have a HOST, otherwise you are dead in the water. I have been adding host support to my Teensy projects but I can?t boil that ocean.

Benjamin Tremblay

> On Jun 4, 2026, at 9:57?AM, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Not sure where you are seeing a hub ?   Most sound generating boxes with USB can operate in either mode so you can plug a keyboard straight in, no hub, PC or anything just as you would with DIN.
> From: Benjamin Tremblay <btremblay at me.com>
> Sent: 04 June 2026 14:35
> To: Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com>
> Cc: Synth DIY <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
>  
> If USB wasn?t a hub-based protocol with a built-in cost of adoption. 
> The actual wiring for USB is just fine and getting better all the time. What?s wrong for MIDI is this 90s-era idea of a ?peripheral? Zip drive that is powered by your gateway 2000 laptop. All that brilliant design thinking ruined USB for MIDI because a hub is nothing but a toll gate we already paid for and nobody wants. Does anyone really want a hub at all?
> 
> Benjamin Tremblay
> 
>>> On Jun 4, 2026, at 9:30?AM, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> You mean USB ?  ?
>> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> Sent: 04 June 2026 14:19
>> To: Synth DIY <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
>>  
>> Why can?t we just develop a new protocol based on cheap UARTs and passive components that runs I dunno 25x faster and works like patch cords instead of hubs, isn?t gated by some consortium, and is backward compatible if you add a cheap adapter?
>> 
>> 
>> Benjamin Tremblay
>> 
>> > On Jun 4, 2026, at 8:47?AM, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > ?--===============5548024699760001422==
>> > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c4be9406536cb882"
>> >
>> > --000000000000c4be9406536cb882
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> >
>> > Mike Bryant wrote:
>> >
>> >> Agree on the spec, but 48V would destroy many of these Chinese MIDI
>> >> devices that omit the opto-isolator =F0=9F=98=84
>> >>
>> >
>> > Yes - the bonus feature.
>> >
>> > Neil
>> >
>> > --000000000000c4be9406536cb882
>> > Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
>> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> >
>> > <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Mike Bryant wrote:</div><div class=3D"gma=
>> > il_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
>> > margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
>> > t:1ex"><div class=3D"msg-4663179895464832597">
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > <div dir=3D"ltr">
>> > <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali=
>> > bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
>> > Agree on the spec, but 48V would destroy many of these Chinese MIDI devices=
>> > that omit the opto-isolator
>> > <span id=3D"m_-4663179895464832597=F0=9F=98=84">=F0=9F=98=84</span></div></=
>> > div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes - the bonus feature.</div><d=
>> > iv><br></div><div>Neil</div></div></div>
>> >
>> > --000000000000c4be9406536cb882--
>> >
>> > --===============5548024699760001422==
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> > MIME-Version: 1.0
>> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> > Content-Disposition: inline
>> >
>> > ________________________________________________________
>> > This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> > Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> > View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> > Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> >
>> > --===============5548024699760001422==--
>> 
>> ________________________________________________________
>> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From btremblay at me.com  Thu Jun  4 16:09:36 2026
From: btremblay at me.com (Benjamin Tremblay)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 10:09:36 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
In-Reply-To: <153B3763-003F-41D5-A0A4-E9051F7E0838@me.com>
References: <153B3763-003F-41D5-A0A4-E9051F7E0838@me.com>
Message-ID: <FDBF0F05-28CB-4C46-BA66-835894CBD841@me.com>

I?m sorry I?m only on my first pot of coffee. 

Benjamin Tremblay

> On Jun 4, 2026, at 10:05?AM, Benjamin Tremblay <btremblay at me.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Sorry I should not say hub.
> What I mean is HOST.
> 
> The host protocol is a tax on developers.
> 
> We do not need ?hosts and peripherals?. We need ?cables? connecting devices. 
> 
> I can?t just plug one USB C device into another with a USB C cable and expect them to talk to each other. That?s asking too much. That?s what drives me crazy. USB MIDI works great if you have a HOST, otherwise you are dead in the water. I have been adding host support to my Teensy projects but I can?t boil that ocean.
> 
> Benjamin Tremblay
> 
>>> On Jun 4, 2026, at 9:57?AM, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Not sure where you are seeing a hub ?   Most sound generating boxes with USB can operate in either mode so you can plug a keyboard straight in, no hub, PC or anything just as you would with DIN.
>> From: Benjamin Tremblay <btremblay at me.com>
>> Sent: 04 June 2026 14:35
>> To: Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com>
>> Cc: Synth DIY <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
>>  
>> If USB wasn?t a hub-based protocol with a built-in cost of adoption. 
>> The actual wiring for USB is just fine and getting better all the time. What?s wrong for MIDI is this 90s-era idea of a ?peripheral? Zip drive that is powered by your gateway 2000 laptop. All that brilliant design thinking ruined USB for MIDI because a hub is nothing but a toll gate we already paid for and nobody wants. Does anyone really want a hub at all?
>> 
>> Benjamin Tremblay
>> 
>>> On Jun 4, 2026, at 9:30?AM, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> You mean USB ?  ?
>>> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>>> Sent: 04 June 2026 14:19
>>> To: Synth DIY <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
>>>  
>>> Why can?t we just develop a new protocol based on cheap UARTs and passive components that runs I dunno 25x faster and works like patch cords instead of hubs, isn?t gated by some consortium, and is backward compatible if you add a cheap adapter?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Benjamin Tremblay
>>> 
>>> > On Jun 4, 2026, at 8:47?AM, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > ?--===============5548024699760001422==
>>> > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c4be9406536cb882"
>>> >
>>> > --000000000000c4be9406536cb882
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>> >
>>> > Mike Bryant wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Agree on the spec, but 48V would destroy many of these Chinese MIDI
>>> >> devices that omit the opto-isolator =F0=9F=98=84
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > Yes - the bonus feature.
>>> >
>>> > Neil
>>> >
>>> > --000000000000c4be9406536cb882
>>> > Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
>>> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>> >
>>> > <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Mike Bryant wrote:</div><div class=3D"gma=
>>> > il_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
>>> > margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
>>> > t:1ex"><div class=3D"msg-4663179895464832597">
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > <div dir=3D"ltr">
>>> > <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali=
>>> > bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
>>> > Agree on the spec, but 48V would destroy many of these Chinese MIDI devices=
>>> > that omit the opto-isolator
>>> > <span id=3D"m_-4663179895464832597=F0=9F=98=84">=F0=9F=98=84</span></div></=
>>> > div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes - the bonus feature.</div><d=
>>> > iv><br></div><div>Neil</div></div></div>
>>> >
>>> > --000000000000c4be9406536cb882--
>>> >
>>> > --===============5548024699760001422==
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>> > MIME-Version: 1.0
>>> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>> > Content-Disposition: inline
>>> >
>>> > ________________________________________________________
>>> > This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>>> > Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> > View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>>> > Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>> >
>>> > --===============5548024699760001422==--
>>> 
>>> ________________________________________________________
>>> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>>> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From mec.forumreader at gmail.com  Fri Jun  5 08:28:14 2026
From: mec.forumreader at gmail.com (Michael E Caloroso)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2026 02:28:14 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
In-Reply-To: <2741B215-E8B9-446C-BDDF-0C3D800C2D02@me.com>
References: <CACZGMxKo=iTx=LqO6QOx2v8EBADCz5CZu8VHypXR2pApocazEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2741B215-E8B9-446C-BDDF-0C3D800C2D02@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAAv6=UC-qqXFwH1QCSw-XiaccAwHyqiRaDnukFXq-Y_EeFaG0g@mail.gmail.com>

Because there are too many cooks in the kitchen.

MIDI originally specified inexpensive components which add about $25 to the
BOM cost (1983 economy).  It was also the easiest solution to prevent
interface problems.

The biggest barrier to acceptance of MIDI was getting the manufacturers in
agreement and on the same page.  Adding a UART to a new protocol would
invite all kinds of complications.  A UART-based protocol would not only
invite disputes on low level programming algorithms, there would be an
endless dispute over which UART.  Or which microcontroller or CPU with
onboard UARTs.  Not only are UARTs not inexpensive components, but they go
obsolete.  The MIDI organization mandated the components that will not go
obsolete while mandating the optoisolator but not the specific type (the
spec does not mandate 6N138/9 or PC900).

In 1983 at the birth of MIDI, there were about 10 member manufacturers on
the MIDI committee,  Today there are over a hundred of them (
https://midi.org/partners).  The organization would have to get tenfold
more members to agree on any UART-based proposal, which is a very very tall
order  Dave Smith had said even getting ten to agree back in 1983 was a
major headache that he cares not to repeat.

Ain't gonna happen.

MC

On Thu, Jun 4, 2026 at 9:31?AM Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy <
synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> Why can?t we just develop a new protocol based on cheap UARTs and passive
> components that runs I dunno 25x faster and works like patch cords instead
> of hubs, isn?t gated by some consortium, and is backward compatible if you
> add a cheap adapter?
>
>
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From ben.pi.bradley at gmail.com  Fri Jun  5 09:28:31 2026
From: ben.pi.bradley at gmail.com (Ben Bradley)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2026 03:28:31 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
In-Reply-To: <CAAv6=UC-qqXFwH1QCSw-XiaccAwHyqiRaDnukFXq-Y_EeFaG0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACZGMxKo=iTx=LqO6QOx2v8EBADCz5CZu8VHypXR2pApocazEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2741B215-E8B9-446C-BDDF-0C3D800C2D02@me.com>
 <CAAv6=UC-qqXFwH1QCSw-XiaccAwHyqiRaDnukFXq-Y_EeFaG0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+wjhVsOJHDD-tjWQQL89_JcPnwnpDC=7whQ_7gCOvcQbtPWxw@mail.gmail.com>

The MIDI standard already 'suggests' a UART be used by setting the
standard serial spec to 8-N-1. The only new suggestion I see here is
to use a faster data rate, which I wholeheartedly endorse.

I might suggest something like RS422 or RS485, which are plenty fast,
but neither of these have the isolation that is needed. Ethernet
hardware is isolated, but the signal would need a more complicated
data format to go through the isolation transformers. OTOH, I'd hope
there are much faster optoisolaters now than when MIDI was spec'd,
though the ones needed at the time were significantly faster than the
jellybean ones back then.

MIDI 2.0 officially came out a few years ago, I downloaded and did a
cursory read-through of the spec, there's much faster data transfer
now but I forget if it's through USB (UGH!) or what.

I vaguely recall in the '80's or '90's a manufacturer made a synth
with a "2x speed" option for its MIDI ports, so that at least when
connected to other units of that brand there was the option to go
twice the standard MIDI speed. No doubt the MIDI association frowned
heavily on that, and may have made them stop doing that.

I actually watched the first half of this video a few days ago, it's
all about the pains of MIDI in the first years. I didn't even watch
the rest to see his solution:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm3ThKXABJ0

On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 at 02:30, Michael E Caloroso via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> Because there are too many cooks in the kitchen.
>
> MIDI originally specified inexpensive components which add about $25 to the BOM cost (1983 economy).  It was also the easiest solution to prevent interface problems.
>
> The biggest barrier to acceptance of MIDI was getting the manufacturers in agreement and on the same page.  Adding a UART to a new protocol would invite all kinds of complications.  A UART-based protocol would not only invite disputes on low level programming algorithms, there would be an endless dispute over which UART.  Or which microcontroller or CPU with onboard UARTs.  Not only are UARTs not inexpensive components, but they go obsolete.  The MIDI organization mandated the components that will not go obsolete while mandating the optoisolator but not the specific type (the spec does not mandate 6N138/9 or PC900).
>
> In 1983 at the birth of MIDI, there were about 10 member manufacturers on the MIDI committee,  Today there are over a hundred of them (https://midi.org/partners).  The organization would have to get tenfold more members to agree on any UART-based proposal, which is a very very tall order  Dave Smith had said even getting ten to agree back in 1983 was a major headache that he cares not to repeat.
>
> Ain't gonna happen.
>
> MC
>
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2026 at 9:31?AM Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>
>> Why can?t we just develop a new protocol based on cheap UARTs and passive components that runs I dunno 25x faster and works like patch cords instead of hubs, isn?t gated by some consortium, and is backward compatible if you add a cheap adapter?
>>
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From ben.pi.bradley at gmail.com  Fri Jun  5 09:28:31 2026
From: ben.pi.bradley at gmail.com (Ben Bradley)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2026 03:28:31 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
In-Reply-To: <CAAv6=UC-qqXFwH1QCSw-XiaccAwHyqiRaDnukFXq-Y_EeFaG0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACZGMxKo=iTx=LqO6QOx2v8EBADCz5CZu8VHypXR2pApocazEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2741B215-E8B9-446C-BDDF-0C3D800C2D02@me.com>
 <CAAv6=UC-qqXFwH1QCSw-XiaccAwHyqiRaDnukFXq-Y_EeFaG0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+wjhVsOJHDD-tjWQQL89_JcPnwnpDC=7whQ_7gCOvcQbtPWxw@mail.gmail.com>

The MIDI standard already 'suggests' a UART be used by setting the
standard serial spec to 8-N-1. The only new suggestion I see here is
to use a faster data rate, which I wholeheartedly endorse.

I might suggest something like RS422 or RS485, which are plenty fast,
but neither of these have the isolation that is needed. Ethernet
hardware is isolated, but the signal would need a more complicated
data format to go through the isolation transformers. OTOH, I'd hope
there are much faster optoisolaters now than when MIDI was spec'd,
though the ones needed at the time were significantly faster than the
jellybean ones back then.

MIDI 2.0 officially came out a few years ago, I downloaded and did a
cursory read-through of the spec, there's much faster data transfer
now but I forget if it's through USB (UGH!) or what.

I vaguely recall in the '80's or '90's a manufacturer made a synth
with a "2x speed" option for its MIDI ports, so that at least when
connected to other units of that brand there was the option to go
twice the standard MIDI speed. No doubt the MIDI association frowned
heavily on that, and may have made them stop doing that.

I actually watched the first half of this video a few days ago, it's
all about the pains of MIDI in the first years. I didn't even watch
the rest to see his solution:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm3ThKXABJ0

On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 at 02:30, Michael E Caloroso via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> Because there are too many cooks in the kitchen.
>
> MIDI originally specified inexpensive components which add about $25 to the BOM cost (1983 economy).  It was also the easiest solution to prevent interface problems.
>
> The biggest barrier to acceptance of MIDI was getting the manufacturers in agreement and on the same page.  Adding a UART to a new protocol would invite all kinds of complications.  A UART-based protocol would not only invite disputes on low level programming algorithms, there would be an endless dispute over which UART.  Or which microcontroller or CPU with onboard UARTs.  Not only are UARTs not inexpensive components, but they go obsolete.  The MIDI organization mandated the components that will not go obsolete while mandating the optoisolator but not the specific type (the spec does not mandate 6N138/9 or PC900).
>
> In 1983 at the birth of MIDI, there were about 10 member manufacturers on the MIDI committee,  Today there are over a hundred of them (https://midi.org/partners).  The organization would have to get tenfold more members to agree on any UART-based proposal, which is a very very tall order  Dave Smith had said even getting ten to agree back in 1983 was a major headache that he cares not to repeat.
>
> Ain't gonna happen.
>
> MC
>
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2026 at 9:31?AM Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>
>> Why can?t we just develop a new protocol based on cheap UARTs and passive components that runs I dunno 25x faster and works like patch cords instead of hubs, isn?t gated by some consortium, and is backward compatible if you add a cheap adapter?
>>
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From btremblay at me.com  Fri Jun  5 13:13:05 2026
From: btremblay at me.com (Benjamin Tremblay)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2026 07:13:05 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
In-Reply-To: <CA+wjhVsOJHDD-tjWQQL89_JcPnwnpDC=7whQ_7gCOvcQbtPWxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+wjhVsOJHDD-tjWQQL89_JcPnwnpDC=7whQ_7gCOvcQbtPWxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DBC0F67F-05A0-476F-A879-AF4CB39F37CE@me.com>

I respectfully understand and agree. 
But perhaps this is a case where the maker community should beg for forgiveness and not permission. Modular formats evolve over time snd standards have emerged but strict adherence is less important than protecting jacks from having electrical characteristics that are harmful to self or others. Example: the delightfully weird nlc modules. 
On the other end of the spectrum there are digital modular units that have obligatory CV compatibility but are arguably really MIDI devices, like Mutable Braids. 
Fortunately modular has TRS MIDI, which is ?just little patch cords?, with users who are already mindful of the concept of source jacks and destination jacks. For modular, the existing MIDI standard doesn?t seem that bad because usually a modular setup wouldn?t be receiving 16+ tracks of polyphonic, multitimbral data. But lots of sweeping digital LFOs, pitch bends, and various control changes plus a clock could be too much.
My Yamaha QY70 urges me to thin CC data after I capture it and let machines interpolate the signal. But what if we didn?t have to be so frugal?
I guess that?s where I?m going with this, modular users and modular designers will try things and sometimes they work. Jaron Lanier complained that MIDI was a failure because it only captured key presses and knob twiddles versus musical or sonic intent. I?m not sure if I agree but bandwidth and cpu speed were limiting factors, and we don?t have those limitations today.
Getting big manufacturers to agree on standards is so not happening. Getting manufacturers to add an inexpensive tweak that makes a cheap controller or tabletop synth fun is just a matter of showing them what?s fun. ( such as CV out on so many novelty keyboards ). 




Benjamin Tremblay

> On Jun 5, 2026, at 3:41?AM, Ben Bradley via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> ?The MIDI standard already 'suggests' a UART be used by setting the
> standard serial spec to 8-N-1. The only new suggestion I see here is
> to use a faster data rate, which I wholeheartedly endorse.
> 
> I might suggest something like RS422 or RS485, which are plenty fast,
> but neither of these have the isolation that is needed. Ethernet
> hardware is isolated, but the signal would need a more complicated
> data format to go through the isolation transformers. OTOH, I'd hope
> there are much faster optoisolaters now than when MIDI was spec'd,
> though the ones needed at the time were significantly faster than the
> jellybean ones back then.
> 
> MIDI 2.0 officially came out a few years ago, I downloaded and did a
> cursory read-through of the spec, there's much faster data transfer
> now but I forget if it's through USB (UGH!) or what.
> 
> I vaguely recall in the '80's or '90's a manufacturer made a synth
> with a "2x speed" option for its MIDI ports, so that at least when
> connected to other units of that brand there was the option to go
> twice the standard MIDI speed. No doubt the MIDI association frowned
> heavily on that, and may have made them stop doing that.
> 
> I actually watched the first half of this video a few days ago, it's
> all about the pains of MIDI in the first years. I didn't even watch
> the rest to see his solution:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm3ThKXABJ0
> 
>> On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 at 02:30, Michael E Caloroso via Synth-diy
>> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Because there are too many cooks in the kitchen.
>> 
>> MIDI originally specified inexpensive components which add about $25 to the BOM cost (1983 economy).  It was also the easiest solution to prevent interface problems.
>> 
>> The biggest barrier to acceptance of MIDI was getting the manufacturers in agreement and on the same page.  Adding a UART to a new protocol would invite all kinds of complications.  A UART-based protocol would not only invite disputes on low level programming algorithms, there would be an endless dispute over which UART.  Or which microcontroller or CPU with onboard UARTs.  Not only are UARTs not inexpensive components, but they go obsolete.  The MIDI organization mandated the components that will not go obsolete while mandating the optoisolator but not the specific type (the spec does not mandate 6N138/9 or PC900).
>> 
>> In 1983 at the birth of MIDI, there were about 10 member manufacturers on the MIDI committee,  Today there are over a hundred of them (https://midi.org/partners).  The organization would have to get tenfold more members to agree on any UART-based proposal, which is a very very tall order  Dave Smith had said even getting ten to agree back in 1983 was a major headache that he cares not to repeat.
>> 
>> Ain't gonna happen.
>> 
>> MC
>> 
>>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2026 at 9:31?AM Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Why can?t we just develop a new protocol based on cheap UARTs and passive components that runs I dunno 25x faster and works like patch cords instead of hubs, isn?t gated by some consortium, and is backward compatible if you add a cheap adapter?
>>> 
>> ________________________________________________________
>> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Fri Jun  5 13:22:26 2026
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2026 12:22:26 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
In-Reply-To: <DBC0F67F-05A0-476F-A879-AF4CB39F37CE@me.com>
References: <CA+wjhVsOJHDD-tjWQQL89_JcPnwnpDC=7whQ_7gCOvcQbtPWxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <DBC0F67F-05A0-476F-A879-AF4CB39F37CE@me.com>
Message-ID: <CACZGMx+8jmMS3gq_FERHfwfZOiYr+MynqTPYTWjxtoZ0PyDhdA@mail.gmail.com>

Benjamin Tremblay wrote:
> Getting big manufacturers to agree on standards is so not happening.
Getting manufacturers to add an inexpensive tweak that makes a cheap
controller or tabletop synth fun is just a matter of showing them what?s
fun. ( such as CV out on so many novelty keyboards ).

https://tiptopaudio.com/art/

For example, it is used to control the 8-voice poly TRIAX8.

Neil
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From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Fri Jun  5 13:22:26 2026
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2026 12:22:26 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
In-Reply-To: <DBC0F67F-05A0-476F-A879-AF4CB39F37CE@me.com>
References: <CA+wjhVsOJHDD-tjWQQL89_JcPnwnpDC=7whQ_7gCOvcQbtPWxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <DBC0F67F-05A0-476F-A879-AF4CB39F37CE@me.com>
Message-ID: <CACZGMx+8jmMS3gq_FERHfwfZOiYr+MynqTPYTWjxtoZ0PyDhdA@mail.gmail.com>

Benjamin Tremblay wrote:
> Getting big manufacturers to agree on standards is so not happening.
Getting manufacturers to add an inexpensive tweak that makes a cheap
controller or tabletop synth fun is just a matter of showing them what?s
fun. ( such as CV out on so many novelty keyboards ).

https://tiptopaudio.com/art/

For example, it is used to control the 8-voice poly TRIAX8.

Neil
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From modular at go2.pl  Fri Jun  5 15:11:57 2026
From: modular at go2.pl (Roman Sowa)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2026 15:11:57 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
In-Reply-To: <CAP92RBWxZhnAaTCLTxTJgfkvt0H5q2F=8Q9JBccymfr-jcD8Ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP92RBWxZhnAaTCLTxTJgfkvt0H5q2F=8Q9JBccymfr-jcD8Ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <668ceb7c-8939-4631-b0a3-0cdcd39aeffc@go2.pl>

That 220 ohm resistor was also put there to prevent just that - 
harvesting power from MIDI OUT. Also if you accidently cut the cable or 
whatever happens to short the wires, it will not blow up the instrument 
but limit the current at roughly 20mA.

I have seen MIDI interfaces where the 5V line was literally turned off 
when there was no MIDI byte sent. So no harversting there at all.

There are manufacturers in organ world that add 2 power lines on pins 1 
and 3 of the DIN jack, and sometimes provide 7-pin DIN jack with power, 
but the power is on 1-3 anyway. Just to show the user it's not MIDI so 
hey must use their product only, while in fact it is pure MIDI with 
added power.

Roman

W dniu 2026-06-04 o?12:52, Mattias Rickardsson pisze:
> Hi folks,
> 
> Do any manufacturers intentionally design their MIDI Outs to improve 
> reliability with MIDI-driven devices?
> 
> Even though the MIDI standard only specifies?communication, some gadgets 
> use it for driving electronics by the voltage and current typically 
> appearing on a MIDI Out. Like CME WIDI Master etc, adding Bluetooth MIDI 
> in a plug directly on the MIDI port, and in many other hobby projects 
> and commercial products throughout the years. 
> https://www.cme-pro.com/widi-master/ <https://www.cme-pro.com/widi-master/>
> 
> The MIDI standard allows quite wide tolerances on everything: Supply 
> voltage +5V?+/-10%, resistors?+/- 5%. Hence, the possible voltages and 
> currents available for a MIDI-driven device can differ quite a lot, at 
> least in theory and in older equipment. Moreover, the MIDI Out can also 
> run off a +3.3V?+/-5% supply with low-valued resistors, potentially 
> allowing more current if more than MIDI's 5 mA is sucked out, but also 
> never giving anywhere near 5 V (or even 4 V) in low-current situations. 
> There seem to be observations of certain external devices not working on 
> certain MIDI gear, which?is not very unexpected given the out-of-spec 
> application.
> 
> For example I'm thinking that it would be possible and fully allowed to 
> choose 1% resistors near the more current-generous end of the 5% spec 
> range, and then give slightly more current and/or higher voltage to an 
> external device, while still being compliant with the MIDI spec (and 
> hopefully well-working with all MIDI In ports). There are also other 
> potential tweaks to the MIDI Outs, optimizing its use for certain 
> "illegal" operations. The driving voltage can be tweaked to give more 
> current or more voltage at certain non-MIDI-typical usecases, and I 
> guess the MIDI Out could also be designed more as a true current source 
> than the logic buffer with output resistors shown in the spec.
> 
> Now that the MIDI spec has allowed both 3.3V and TRS since some years 
> back, it should have triggered more innovation and I figured some of you 
> might have encountered some interesting concepts and design variations. :-)
> 
> Curious regards,
> /mr
> 
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

From grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com  Fri Jun  5 15:27:13 2026
From: grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com (grant musictechnologiesgroup.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2026 13:27:13 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI output current and MIDI-driven gadgets
In-Reply-To: <CA+wjhVsOJHDD-tjWQQL89_JcPnwnpDC=7whQ_7gCOvcQbtPWxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACZGMxKo=iTx=LqO6QOx2v8EBADCz5CZu8VHypXR2pApocazEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2741B215-E8B9-446C-BDDF-0C3D800C2D02@me.com>
 <CAAv6=UC-qqXFwH1QCSw-XiaccAwHyqiRaDnukFXq-Y_EeFaG0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+wjhVsOJHDD-tjWQQL89_JcPnwnpDC=7whQ_7gCOvcQbtPWxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <36cdc0b5-501f-4536-af52-a2ae0f0a097a@musictechnologiesgroup.com>

Not sure about the written spec, but around the release time of the MIDI 2.0 spec there were several videos on youtube from MIDI.org and/or it's contributors. One thing that stood out to me was the comment that even "basic microcontrollers these days have Ethernet built-in" (similar to how MCUs at MIDI 1.0 time had UARTs). I thought that was a bit of a stretch, but it shows you the MIDI.org philosophy. I don't think they are interested in a new physical layer beyond an Ethernet jack. USB was/is already a supported thing.

Also I assume by now that everyone is aware that you can get a perpetual Sys Ex ID starting at $240 USD.

GB

On 6/5/2026 12:28 AM, Ben Bradley via Synth-diy wrote:

MIDI 2.0 officially came out a few years ago, I downloaded and did a
cursory read-through of the spec, there's much faster data transfer
now but I forget if it's through USB (UGH!) or what.


________________________________________________________
This is the Synth-diy mailing list
Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
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From marchillier at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Jun  7 14:06:39 2026
From: marchillier at yahoo.co.uk (marc hillier)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2026 12:06:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [sdiy] Trying To Contact Paula Maddox
References: <1205676882.1005960.1780833999528.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1205676882.1005960.1780833999528@mail.yahoo.com>


Hi,
I am trying to contact Paula.
I am a long time friend but not been in contact for ten years or so.
I have some devastatingly bad news.
My email to Paula no longer works and I don't really do Instagram or LinkedIn.
I did look on the Dove Audio site but no way to contact.
I did send a text to the old phone number I had but no reply as yet.
I appreciate any help you can provide on a communication path.
Kind Regards
Marc


Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer
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From vladoman at gmail.com  Sun Jun  7 15:17:07 2026
From: vladoman at gmail.com (Vladimir Pantelic)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2026 15:17:07 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Trying To Contact Paula Maddox
In-Reply-To: <1205676882.1005960.1780833999528@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1205676882.1005960.1780833999528.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1205676882.1005960.1780833999528@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <723c4f0b-206f-4044-b95e-d97ba95aebcc@gmail.com>

I relayed the message

On 6/7/26 14:06, marc hillier via Synth-diy wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am trying to contact Paula.
> 
> I am a long time friend but not been in contact for ten years or so.
> 
> I have some devastatingly bad news.
> 
> My email to Paula no longer works and I don't really do Instagram or LinkedIn.
> 
> I did look on the Dove Audio site but no way to contact.
> 
> I did send a text to the old phone number I had but no reply as yet.
> 
> I appreciate any help you can provide on a communication path.
> 
> Kind Regards
> 
> Marc
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer <https://mail.onelink.me/107872968? 
> pid=nativeplacement&c=US_Acquisition_YMktg_315_SearchOrgConquer_EmailSignature&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=US_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100002039&af_sub5=C01_Email_Static_&af_ios_store_cpp=0c38e4b0-a27e-40f9-a211-f4e2de32ab91&af_android_url=https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.yahoo.mobile.client.android.mail&listing=search_organize_conquer>
> 
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From mikegorman at btinternet.com  Sun Jun  7 18:16:34 2026
From: mikegorman at btinternet.com (Mike Gorman)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2026 17:16:34 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Trying To Contact Paula Maddox
Message-ID: <E53D2CE8-8156-4DDB-91AA-5FD79307F8EE@btinternet.com>

?Hi 

I?ve seen Paula has been active on the Modwiggler forums recently, with the username PaulaM. It might be worth trying a PM on this forum perhaps.

Regards

Mike Gorman

> On 7 Jun 2026, at 14:17, Vladimir Pantelic via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> ?I relayed the message
> 
> On 6/7/26 14:06, marc hillier via Synth-diy wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I am trying to contact Paula.
>> I am a long time friend but not been in contact for ten years or so.
>> I have some devastatingly bad news.
>> My email to Paula no longer works and I don't really do Instagram or LinkedIn.
>> I did look on the Dove Audio site but no way to contact.
>> I did send a text to the old phone number I had but no reply as yet.
>> I appreciate any help you can provide on a communication path.
>> Kind Regards
>> Marc
>> Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer <https://mail.onelink.me/107872968? pid=nativeplacement&c=US_Acquisition_YMktg_315_SearchOrgConquer_EmailSignature&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=US_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100002039&af_sub5=C01_Email_Static_&af_ios_store_cpp=0c38e4b0-a27e-40f9-a211-f4e2de32ab91&af_android_url=https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.yahoo.mobile.client.android.mail&listing=search_organize_conquer>
>> ________________________________________________________
>> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From vladoman at gmail.com  Sun Jun  7 20:05:37 2026
From: vladoman at gmail.com (Vladimir Pantelic)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2026 20:05:37 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Trying To Contact Paula Maddox
In-Reply-To: <E53D2CE8-8156-4DDB-91AA-5FD79307F8EE@btinternet.com>
References: <E53D2CE8-8156-4DDB-91AA-5FD79307F8EE@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <16f6f056-39fa-4b8e-b8a0-222fab2869c2@gmail.com>

she is aware, should be OK now

On 6/7/26 18:16, Mike Gorman wrote:
> ?Hi
> 
> I?ve seen Paula has been active on the Modwiggler forums recently, with the
> username PaulaM. It might be worth trying a PM on this forum perhaps.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Mike Gorman
> 
>> On 7 Jun 2026, at 14:17, Vladimir Pantelic via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-
>> diy.org> wrote: ?I relayed the message
>> 
>> On 6/7/26 14:06, marc hillier via Synth-diy wrote:
>>> Hi, I am trying to contact Paula. I am a long time friend but not been
>>> in contact for ten years or so. I have some devastatingly bad news. My
>>> email to Paula no longer works and I don't really do Instagram or
>>> LinkedIn. I did look on the Dove Audio site but no way to contact. I did
>>> send a text to the old phone number I had but no reply as yet. I
>>> appreciate any help you can provide on a communication path. Kind
>>> Regards Marc Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer <https://
>>> mail.onelink.me/107872968?
>>> pid=nativeplacement&c=US_Acquisition_YMktg_315_SearchOrgConquer_EmailSignature&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=US_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100002039&af_sub5=C01_Email_Static_&af_ios_store_cpp=0c38e4b0-
>>> a27e-40f9-a211-f4e2de32ab91&af_android_url=https://play.google.com/store/
>>> apps/details?
>>> id=com.yahoo.mobile.client.android.mail&listing=search_organize_conquer> 
>>> ________________________________________________________ This is the
>>> Synth-diy mailing list Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org View
>>> archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/ Check your
>>> settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy Selling or
>>> trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> 
>> ________________________________________________________ This is the Synth-
>> diy mailing list Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org View archive at:
>> https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/ Check your settings at: https://
>> synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy Selling or trading? Use
>> marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 


From theatomlabspt at gmail.com  Thu Jun 11 17:04:44 2026
From: theatomlabspt at gmail.com (H.Sergio Alves)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2026 16:04:44 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Digidesign Focusrite control 24 schematics
In-Reply-To: <d672d375-8f94-4289-8b85-08b804ca1174@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
References: <CA+Wmqz0qUmR0P-Rm-3bXRWGgd+yOkt=OQzeBPyv-5c+bVWJgRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <c7310c68-52a2-437a-bfe6-e9dd09770ee1@go2.pl>
 <d672d375-8f94-4289-8b85-08b804ca1174@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Wmqz08xan8XAJyoiUrCwfSUfmehtEGfpP7hSvFiTKrunDz1g@mail.gmail.com>

I?ve been trying to reverse engineer it? I have a bunch so one was the
victim? unfortunately since I don?t have enough knowledge I?ve resorted to
ChatGPT to help?
I?ve managed so far to pin out basics and get the circuitry on the lcd
sorted now it?s the way it works that we struggling with?

The lcd is composed by 4 digits on a 8x5 dot matrix with a custom die on
the base of the glass
It?s controlled by a small Zilog through (?) a HEF4053.
Next step is going to be reverse engineering of the main board where these
are installed and figure out the pinout for the lcd itself? then using a
more modern mcu try to speak and show some digits?
Long way to go but tons of fun so far? and learned a lot :)

On Tue, 26 May 2026 at 14:05, grant musictechnologiesgroup.com <
grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> wrote:

>
> Standard single-digit guys if this is what you are asking about:
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/175869902159
>
> GB
>
> On 5/26/2026 5:31 AM, Roman Sowa via Synth-diy wrote:
> > Are you sure they are LCDs? If so my first bet would be on typical
> > HD44780 interface. From the blury pictures I see they look to me a bit
> > like LED matrix, something like HDSP2131 - but those are 8 digits.
> >
> > My secong guess is that any customization was related only to size,
> > leaving control protocol the same as common displays.
> >
> > Roman
> >
> > W dniu 2026-05-26 o 14:00, H.Sergio Alves via Synth-diy pisze:
> >> Long shot but does anyone have the schematics for this monster
> >> controller? Spoke with Avid and Focusrite and none of them have them
> >> (I know it?s wild but hey?)
> >> I?m looking to reuse the small 4 digits lcds but need to figure out
> >> how they?re connected and the protocol used to speak with the Zilog..
> >> spoke to the manufacturer of the screens but since these were made
> >> custom and over 20 years ago they don?t have any documentation
> >> available anymore.
> >> Thanks for any help you can provide In advance :)
> >>
> >> ________________________________________________________
> >> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> >> Check your settings at:
> https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> > ________________________________________________________
> > This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> > Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> > Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
>
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com  Thu Jun 11 20:36:33 2026
From: grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com (grant musictechnologiesgroup.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2026 18:36:33 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Digidesign Focusrite control 24 schematics
In-Reply-To: <CA+Wmqz08xan8XAJyoiUrCwfSUfmehtEGfpP7hSvFiTKrunDz1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+Wmqz0qUmR0P-Rm-3bXRWGgd+yOkt=OQzeBPyv-5c+bVWJgRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <c7310c68-52a2-437a-bfe6-e9dd09770ee1@go2.pl>
 <d672d375-8f94-4289-8b85-08b804ca1174@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <CA+Wmqz08xan8XAJyoiUrCwfSUfmehtEGfpP7hSvFiTKrunDz1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <27937d60-cbf2-40f1-b32d-1ff14cf675e3@musictechnologiesgroup.com>

Now I know what you are talking about.  " High?intensity, four?character LCD displays above each rotary control."
We thought you were talking about the 88888888 7-segment LEDs.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175869901982

Do you have better pictures of what you have torn apart?  There are, what appear to be, a lot of little MCUs in that "board". Maybe just programmable logic chips.

GB


On 6/11/2026 8:04 AM, H.Sergio Alves wrote:
I?ve been trying to reverse engineer it? I have a bunch so one was the victim? unfortunately since I don?t have enough knowledge I?ve resorted to ChatGPT to help?
I?ve managed so far to pin out basics and get the circuitry on the lcd sorted now it?s the way it works that we struggling with?

The lcd is composed by 4 digits on a 8x5 dot matrix with a custom die on the base of the glass
It?s controlled by a small Zilog through (?) a HEF4053.
Next step is going to be reverse engineering of the main board where these are installed and figure out the pinout for the lcd itself? then using a more modern mcu try to speak and show some digits?
Long way to go but tons of fun so far? and learned a lot :)

On Tue, 26 May 2026 at 14:05, grant musictechnologiesgroup.com<http://musictechnologiesgroup.com> <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com<mailto:grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com>> wrote:

Standard single-digit guys if this is what you are asking about:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175869902159

GB

On 5/26/2026 5:31 AM, Roman Sowa via Synth-diy wrote:
> Are you sure they are LCDs? If so my first bet would be on typical
> HD44780 interface. From the blury pictures I see they look to me a bit
> like LED matrix, something like HDSP2131 - but those are 8 digits.
>
> My secong guess is that any customization was related only to size,
> leaving control protocol the same as common displays.
>
> Roman
>
> W dniu 2026-05-26 o 14:00, H.Sergio Alves via Synth-diy pisze:
>> Long shot but does anyone have the schematics for this monster
>> controller? Spoke with Avid and Focusrite and none of them have them
>> (I know it?s wild but hey?)
>> I?m looking to reuse the small 4 digits lcds but need to figure out
>> how they?re connected and the protocol used to speak with the Zilog..
>> spoke to the manufacturer of the screens but since these were made
>> custom and over 20 years ago they don?t have any documentation
>> available anymore.
>> Thanks for any help you can provide In advance :)
>>
>> ________________________________________________________
>> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org<mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org<mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>


________________________________________________________
This is the Synth-diy mailing list
Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org<mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>

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From shedsynth at gmail.com  Sat Jun 13 10:31:10 2026
From: shedsynth at gmail.com (ShedSynth)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2026 09:31:10 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Cambridge UK weekend 2026
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxLk5_nc3tVjnFNZubBLS3_asC+u9iCL_d49KX-WE+VhgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACZGMxJJ6YU2ZEo6a9BmP1jJe9by=9ykhwViVDk6zErXk3dd_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACZGMxLk5_nc3tVjnFNZubBLS3_asC+u9iCL_d49KX-WE+VhgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0ab901dcfb0e$fd75c520$f8614f60$@gmail.com>

I'm booked in to exhibit both days.

Who else is planning to be there?

 

From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of Neil Johnson via Synth-diy
Sent: 17 April 2026 16:54
To: SDIY List <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: [sdiy] Cambridge UK weekend 2026

 

Hi all,

 

Finally managed to nail down the details for this year's Synth DIY UK weekend!

 

When: 27th/28th June 2026

    10am to 5pm both days (9am for exhibitors to setup, 4pm Sunday for teardown)

 

Where: Centre for Computing History

Rene Court

Coldhams Road
Cambridge
CB1 3EW

 

Who: open to all, although we have been allocated space for 8 exhibitors, so please email me directly if you really really really want to be an exhibitor.

Entrance fee: free for exhibitors, otherwise ?12/day which includes access to the computing museum (well worth it!).

 

Saturday: https://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/76919/Synthesized-Saturday-June-27th-2026/

Sunday: https://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/76984/synthesized---sunday-june-28th-2026/

 

For those travelling there are a couple of nearby options:

Travelodge, Newmarket Road: https://www.travelodge.co.uk/hotels/577/Cambridge-Newmarket-Road-hotel

Premier Inn, Newmarket Road: https://www.premierinn.com/gb/en/hotels/england/cambridgeshire/cambridge/cambridge-east-newmarket-road.html

 

Cheers,

Neil

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From theatomlabspt at gmail.com  Sat Jun 13 19:43:14 2026
From: theatomlabspt at gmail.com (H.Sergio Alves)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2026 18:43:14 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Digidesign Focusrite control 24 schematics
In-Reply-To: <27937d60-cbf2-40f1-b32d-1ff14cf675e3@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
References: <CA+Wmqz0qUmR0P-Rm-3bXRWGgd+yOkt=OQzeBPyv-5c+bVWJgRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <c7310c68-52a2-437a-bfe6-e9dd09770ee1@go2.pl>
 <d672d375-8f94-4289-8b85-08b804ca1174@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <CA+Wmqz08xan8XAJyoiUrCwfSUfmehtEGfpP7hSvFiTKrunDz1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <27937d60-cbf2-40f1-b32d-1ff14cf675e3@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Wmqz1qQzFQb8ZKqerqXrY+WhKHgMTNeM=N9B1ro7U_zzZVFQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes I do have pictures of microscope of the die and the digits but can?t
send them here due to size.. gonna upload them to my server and send a link
;)

I?d really love to use these orange displays for some of my modules
On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 at 19:36, grant musictechnologiesgroup.com <
grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> wrote:

> Now I know what you are talking about.  " High?intensity, four?character
> LCD displays above each rotary control."
> We thought you were talking about the 88888888 7-segment LEDs.
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/175869901982
>
> Do you have better pictures of what you have torn apart?  There are, what
> appear to be, a lot of little MCUs in that "board". Maybe just programmable
> logic chips.
>
> GB
>
>
>
> On 6/11/2026 8:04 AM, H.Sergio Alves wrote:
>
> I?ve been trying to reverse engineer it? I have a bunch so one was the
> victim? unfortunately since I don?t have enough knowledge I?ve resorted to
> ChatGPT to help?
> I?ve managed so far to pin out basics and get the circuitry on the lcd
> sorted now it?s the way it works that we struggling with?
>
> The lcd is composed by 4 digits on a 8x5 dot matrix with a custom die on
> the base of the glass
> It?s controlled by a small Zilog through (?) a HEF4053.
> Next step is going to be reverse engineering of the main board where these
> are installed and figure out the pinout for the lcd itself? then using a
> more modern mcu try to speak and show some digits?
> Long way to go but tons of fun so far? and learned a lot :)
>
> On Tue, 26 May 2026 at 14:05, grant musictechnologiesgroup.com <
> grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Standard single-digit guys if this is what you are asking about:
>>
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/175869902159
>>
>> GB
>>
>> On 5/26/2026 5:31 AM, Roman Sowa via Synth-diy wrote:
>> > Are you sure they are LCDs? If so my first bet would be on typical
>> > HD44780 interface. From the blury pictures I see they look to me a bit
>> > like LED matrix, something like HDSP2131 - but those are 8 digits.
>> >
>> > My secong guess is that any customization was related only to size,
>> > leaving control protocol the same as common displays.
>> >
>> > Roman
>> >
>> > W dniu 2026-05-26 o 14:00, H.Sergio Alves via Synth-diy pisze:
>> >> Long shot but does anyone have the schematics for this monster
>> >> controller? Spoke with Avid and Focusrite and none of them have them
>> >> (I know it?s wild but hey?)
>> >> I?m looking to reuse the small 4 digits lcds but need to figure out
>> >> how they?re connected and the protocol used to speak with the Zilog..
>> >> spoke to the manufacturer of the screens but since these were made
>> >> custom and over 20 years ago they don?t have any documentation
>> >> available anymore.
>> >> Thanks for any help you can provide In advance :)
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________________________________
>> >> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> >> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> >> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> >> Check your settings at:
>> https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> > ________________________________________________________
>> > This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> > Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> > View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> > Check your settings at:
>> https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________
>> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>
>
>
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From cheater00social at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 20:41:41 2026
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2026 20:41:41 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Goodbye Eagle...
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxJHEE=aQataYO9BR3FOCvNwdMppM2aH15rtUApbuZMPXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACZGMxJHEE=aQataYO9BR3FOCvNwdMppM2aH15rtUApbuZMPXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V--zcMTSOvMm9XuUdwgyzYkPP1z9ofC31t6rxZhsCYZjmQ@mail.gmail.com>

honestly with all these desktop apps using abusive business practices
i'm waiting for a recomp now, and for cloud stuff I'm waiting for
people to start slopcoding alternatives

On Tue, May 26, 2026 at 12:58?PM Neil Johnson via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> Looks like Eagle is toast...
>
> https://www.autodesk.com/support/technical/article/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Eagle-can-be-used-after-the-end-of-life.html?msockid=3dcaf17f85a6605b343be4b0840e61be
>
> Such a shame, it got a lot of folks into DIY board making.
>
> Neil
>
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From cheater00social at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 20:45:25 2026
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2026 20:45:25 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
 equipment?
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-8-fnyUTa-ROkSwsRjvFkP_OzGYEGLSYEihqzEi+0OSGQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have a couple dbx 286s units, and in their infinite wisdom dbx did
not include XLR output, only input, so I'm looking for a good clean
way to install a high quality xlr output plug. It already has balanced
TRS, so electrically it isn't anything spectacular, but I'm looking to
punch the enclosure in a nice way and then install the plug. I was
wondering if anyone had experience with this, and can recommend a good
combination of panel mount XLR jack and a punch that makes holes that
fit it well. I know Neutrik do panel mount XLR, so that would be my
go-to, but I don't know how best to go about doing the hole punching,
so I would appreciate any suggestions or experiences. Thanks.

From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Mon Jun 15 21:08:00 2026
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2026 19:08:00 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
 equipment?
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-8-fnyUTa-ROkSwsRjvFkP_OzGYEGLSYEihqzEi+0OSGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-8-fnyUTa-ROkSwsRjvFkP_OzGYEGLSYEihqzEi+0OSGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CWLP265MB7132092BAA0FB1E9B53334CDDBE62@CWLP265MB7132.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Lots of punches available, but the problem for you will be making something of the exact diameter of the TRS socket to centralise the punch.  Then make up a template to punch the mounting holes.
________________________________
From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Sent: 15 June 2026 19:45
To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment?

I have a couple dbx 286s units, and in their infinite wisdom dbx did
not include XLR output, only input, so I'm looking for a good clean
way to install a high quality xlr output plug. It already has balanced
TRS, so electrically it isn't anything spectacular, but I'm looking to
punch the enclosure in a nice way and then install the plug. I was
wondering if anyone had experience with this, and can recommend a good
combination of panel mount XLR jack and a punch that makes holes that
fit it well. I know Neutrik do panel mount XLR, so that would be my
go-to, but I don't know how best to go about doing the hole punching,
so I would appreciate any suggestions or experiences. Thanks.
________________________________________________________
This is the Synth-diy mailing list
Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From jdec at mindspring.com  Mon Jun 15 21:19:42 2026
From: jdec at mindspring.com (BrightBoy)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2026 19:19:42 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
 equipment?
Message-ID: <d409f5fd-e549-db61-f45c-144f1e8ae7cb@mindspring.com>

In the USA, Greenlee has been the defacto chassis punch manufacturer since the industrial age started.

I also recommend getting the stout automatic center punch to make sure your drill doesn't walk
on the mounting holes.

My favorite? The heavy duty Starrett #18C

Good luck!

BB 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com>
Sent: Jun 15, 2026 3:12 PM
To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>, cheater cheater <cheater00social at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment?

Lots of punches available, but the problem for you will be making something of the exact diameter of the TRS socket to centralise the punch.  Then make up a template to punch the mounting holes.

From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Sent: 15 June 2026 19:45
To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment? 

I have a couple dbx 286s units, and in their infinite wisdom dbx did
not include XLR output, only input, so I'm looking for a good clean
way to install a high quality xlr output plug. It already has balanced
TRS, so electrically it isn't anything spectacular, but I'm looking to
punch the enclosure in a nice way and then install the plug. I was
wondering if anyone had experience with this, and can recommend a good
combination of panel mount XLR jack and a punch that makes holes that
fit it well. I know Neutrik do panel mount XLR, so that would be my
go-to, but I don't know how best to go about doing the hole punching,
so I would appreciate any suggestions or experiences. Thanks.
________________________________________________________
This is the Synth-diy mailing list
Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
Check your settings at:  https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy (https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy)
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



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From cheater00social at gmail.com  Tue Jun 16 00:16:51 2026
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2026 00:16:51 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
 equipment?
In-Reply-To: <d409f5fd-e549-db61-f45c-144f1e8ae7cb@mindspring.com>
References: <d409f5fd-e549-db61-f45c-144f1e8ae7cb@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V--=Oh2gZ1qrqy+vjoaREWOMmpwd8PzOe4sTnmUizJi2Fw@mail.gmail.com>

I won't be replacing the TRS socket, I'll be putting the XLR in an empty space.

Thanks for the product suggestions so far, I'll check them out.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2026 at 9:26?PM BrightBoy via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> In the USA, Greenlee has been the defacto chassis punch manufacturer since the industrial age started.
>
>
>
> I also recommend getting the stout automatic center punch to make sure your drill doesn't walk
> on the mounting holes.
>
>
>
> My favorite? The heavy duty Starrett #18C
>
>
>
> Good luck!
>
>
>
> BB
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com>
> Sent: Jun 15, 2026 3:12 PM
> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>, cheater cheater <cheater00social at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment?
>
>
>
> Lots of punches available, but the problem for you will be making something of the exact diameter of the TRS socket to centralise the punch.  Then make up a template to punch the mounting holes.
> ________________________________
> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> Sent: 15 June 2026 19:45
> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment?
>
> I have a couple dbx 286s units, and in their infinite wisdom dbx did
> not include XLR output, only input, so I'm looking for a good clean
> way to install a high quality xlr output plug. It already has balanced
> TRS, so electrically it isn't anything spectacular, but I'm looking to
> punch the enclosure in a nice way and then install the plug. I was
> wondering if anyone had experience with this, and can recommend a good
> combination of panel mount XLR jack and a punch that makes holes that
> fit it well. I know Neutrik do panel mount XLR, so that would be my
> go-to, but I don't know how best to go about doing the hole punching,
> so I would appreciate any suggestions or experiences. Thanks.
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From jdec at mindspring.com  Tue Jun 16 01:00:23 2026
From: jdec at mindspring.com (BrightBoy)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2026 23:00:23 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
 equipment?
Message-ID: <6a0a6f4b-ef56-5b57-f271-d0b4176ceb25@mindspring.com>

The round punch would be for the main body of the connector and you'll need to drill two holes
for the mounting screws.

BB

-----Original Message-----
From: cheater cheater <cheater00social at gmail.com>
Sent: Jun 15, 2026 6:17 PM
To: BrightBoy <jdec at mindspring.com>
Cc: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment?

I won't be replacing the TRS socket, I'll be putting the XLR in an empty space.

Thanks for the product suggestions so far, I'll check them out.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2026 at 9:26?PM BrightBoy via Synth-diy
wrote:
>
> In the USA, Greenlee has been the defacto chassis punch manufacturer since the industrial age started.
>
>
>
> I also recommend getting the stout automatic center punch to make sure your drill doesn't walk
> on the mounting holes.
>
>
>
> My favorite? The heavy duty Starrett #18C
>
>
>
> Good luck!
>
>
>
> BB
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Bryant
> Sent: Jun 15, 2026 3:12 PM
> To: synth-diy , cheater cheater
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment?
>
>
>
> Lots of punches available, but the problem for you will be making something of the exact diameter of the TRS socket to centralise the punch. Then make up a template to punch the mounting holes.
> ________________________________
> From: Synth-diy on behalf of cheater cheater via Synth-diy
> Sent: 15 June 2026 19:45
> To: synth-diy
> Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment?
>
> I have a couple dbx 286s units, and in their infinite wisdom dbx did
> not include XLR output, only input, so I'm looking for a good clean
> way to install a high quality xlr output plug. It already has balanced
> TRS, so electrically it isn't anything spectacular, but I'm looking to
> punch the enclosure in a nice way and then install the plug. I was
> wondering if anyone had experience with this, and can recommend a good
> combination of panel mount XLR jack and a punch that makes holes that
> fit it well. I know Neutrik do panel mount XLR, so that would be my
> go-to, but I don't know how best to go about doing the hole punching,
> so I would appreciate any suggestions or experiences. Thanks.
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Tue Jun 16 00:56:22 2026
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2026 23:56:22 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
 equipment?
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V--=Oh2gZ1qrqy+vjoaREWOMmpwd8PzOe4sTnmUizJi2Fw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d409f5fd-e549-db61-f45c-144f1e8ae7cb@mindspring.com>
 <CAGn5V--=Oh2gZ1qrqy+vjoaREWOMmpwd8PzOe4sTnmUizJi2Fw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e211e374-bfc1-4f36-8814-7eb3216da726@bugbrand.co.uk>

I've used a few Q Max punches of various diameters - they're very good.


On 15/06/2026 23:16, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> I won't be replacing the TRS socket, I'll be putting the XLR in an empty space.
>
> Thanks for the product suggestions so far, I'll check them out.
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2026 at 9:26?PM BrightBoy via Synth-diy
> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> In the USA, Greenlee has been the defacto chassis punch manufacturer since the industrial age started.
>>
>>
>>
>> I also recommend getting the stout automatic center punch to make sure your drill doesn't walk
>> on the mounting holes.
>>
>>
>>
>> My favorite? The heavy duty Starrett #18C
>>
>>
>>
>> Good luck!
>>
>>
>>
>> BB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com>
>> Sent: Jun 15, 2026 3:12 PM
>> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>, cheater cheater <cheater00social at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment?
>>
>>
>>
>> Lots of punches available, but the problem for you will be making something of the exact diameter of the TRS socket to centralise the punch.  Then make up a template to punch the mounting holes.
>> ________________________________
>> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> Sent: 15 June 2026 19:45
>> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment?
>>
>> I have a couple dbx 286s units, and in their infinite wisdom dbx did
>> not include XLR output, only input, so I'm looking for a good clean
>> way to install a high quality xlr output plug. It already has balanced
>> TRS, so electrically it isn't anything spectacular, but I'm looking to
>> punch the enclosure in a nice way and then install the plug. I was
>> wondering if anyone had experience with this, and can recommend a good
>> combination of panel mount XLR jack and a punch that makes holes that
>> fit it well. I know Neutrik do panel mount XLR, so that would be my
>> go-to, but I don't know how best to go about doing the hole punching,
>> so I would appreciate any suggestions or experiences. Thanks.
>> ________________________________________________________
>> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> ________________________________________________________
>> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

-- 
BugBrand LTD
UK company No. 07199808
VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
1 Ninetree Hill
BRISTOL BS1 3SB
United Kingdom
www.bugbrand.co.uk


From chromatest at chromatest.net  Tue Jun 16 01:15:39 2026
From: chromatest at chromatest.net (Chromatest J. Pantsmaker)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2026 23:15:39 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
 equipment?
In-Reply-To: <e211e374-bfc1-4f36-8814-7eb3216da726@bugbrand.co.uk>
References: <d409f5fd-e549-db61-f45c-144f1e8ae7cb@mindspring.com>
 <CAGn5V--=Oh2gZ1qrqy+vjoaREWOMmpwd8PzOe4sTnmUizJi2Fw@mail.gmail.com>
 <e211e374-bfc1-4f36-8814-7eb3216da726@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <qs25PTWsphYBi01BUZkKKFcnEtcaUjEgS3HHNKT2EnVway4pRa-QQ7jas2e0eJgi9yG9UGziLsPcHxny7DoTNRLl1pofFOmql2lR6mXV0go=@chromatest.net>

I've done pretty well using a step drill and a small file.  You definitely want to punch the exact center of the XLR though.



On Monday, June 15th, 2026 at 4:04 PM, Tom Bugs via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> I've used a few Q Max punches of various diameters - they're very good.
> 
> 
> On 15/06/2026 23:16, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> > I won't be replacing the TRS socket, I'll be putting the XLR in an empty space.
> >
> > Thanks for the product suggestions so far, I'll check them out.
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 15, 2026 at 9:26?PM BrightBoy via Synth-diy
> > <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> >> In the USA, Greenlee has been the defacto chassis punch manufacturer since the industrial age started.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I also recommend getting the stout automatic center punch to make sure your drill doesn't walk
> >> on the mounting holes.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> My favorite? The heavy duty Starrett #18C
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Good luck!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> BB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com>
> >> Sent: Jun 15, 2026 3:12 PM
> >> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>, cheater cheater <cheater00social at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Lots of punches available, but the problem for you will be making something of the exact diameter of the TRS socket to centralise the punch.  Then make up a template to punch the mounting holes.
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> >> Sent: 15 June 2026 19:45
> >> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> >> Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment?
> >>
> >> I have a couple dbx 286s units, and in their infinite wisdom dbx did
> >> not include XLR output, only input, so I'm looking for a good clean
> >> way to install a high quality xlr output plug. It already has balanced
> >> TRS, so electrically it isn't anything spectacular, but I'm looking to
> >> punch the enclosure in a nice way and then install the plug. I was
> >> wondering if anyone had experience with this, and can recommend a good
> >> combination of panel mount XLR jack and a punch that makes holes that
> >> fit it well. I know Neutrik do panel mount XLR, so that would be my
> >> go-to, but I don't know how best to go about doing the hole punching,
> >> so I would appreciate any suggestions or experiences. Thanks.
> >> ________________________________________________________
> >> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> >> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >> ________________________________________________________
> >> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> >> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> > ________________________________________________________
> > This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> > Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> > Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> --
> BugBrand LTD
> UK company No. 07199808
> VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
> 1 Ninetree Hill
> BRISTOL BS1 3SB
> United Kingdom
> www.bugbrand.co.uk
> 
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 


From tmowbray at ihug.com.au  Tue Jun 16 01:36:59 2026
From: tmowbray at ihug.com.au (Tony Mowbray)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2026 09:36:59 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
 equipment?
In-Reply-To: <qs25PTWsphYBi01BUZkKKFcnEtcaUjEgS3HHNKT2EnVway4pRa-QQ7jas2e0eJgi9yG9UGziLsPcHxny7DoTNRLl1pofFOmql2lR6mXV0go=@chromatest.net>
Message-ID: <202606152337.65FNbKH6068334@dropmix.synth-diy.org>

Slow and steady is the best process. If you don't feel benevolent towards it, wait until later.?Excellent work can be done without the fancy tool (and sometimes they cost quite a few dollars) just how slow and steadyRegardsTony MowbraySent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: "Chromatest J. Pantsmaker via Synth-diy" <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> Date: 16/6/26  9:20?am  (GMT+10:00) To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org Subject: Re: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
  equipment? I've done pretty well using a step drill and a small file.? You definitely want to punch the exact center of the XLR though.On Monday, June 15th, 2026 at 4:04 PM, Tom Bugs via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:> I've used a few Q Max punches of various diameters - they're very good.> > > On 15/06/2026 23:16, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:> > I won't be replacing the TRS socket, I'll be putting the XLR in an empty space.> >> > Thanks for the product suggestions so far, I'll check them out.> >> > On Mon, Jun 15, 2026 at 9:26?PM BrightBoy via Synth-diy> > <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:> >> In the USA, Greenlee has been the defacto chassis punch manufacturer since the industrial age started.> >>> >>> >>> >> I also recommend getting the stout automatic center punch to make sure your drill doesn't walk> >> on the mounting holes.> >>> >>> >>> >> My favorite? The heavy duty Starrett #18C> >>> >>> >>> >> Good luck!> >>> >>> >>> >> BB> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -----Original Message-----> >> From: Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com>> >> Sent: Jun 15, 2026 3:12 PM> >> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>, cheater cheater <cheater00social at gmail.com>> >> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment?> >>> >>> >>> >> Lots of punches available, but the problem for you will be making something of the exact diameter of the TRS socket to centralise the punch.? Then make up a template to punch the mounting holes.> >> ________________________________> >> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>> >> Sent: 15 June 2026 19:45> >> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>> >> Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment?> >>> >> I have a couple dbx 286s units, and in their infinite wisdom dbx did> >> not include XLR output, only input, so I'm looking for a good clean> >> way to install a high quality xlr output plug. It already has balanced> >> TRS, so electrically it isn't anything spectacular, but I'm looking to> >> punch the enclosure in a nice way and then install the plug. I was> >> wondering if anyone had experience with this, and can recommend a good> >> combination of panel mount XLR jack and a punch that makes holes that> >> fit it well. I know Neutrik do panel mount XLR, so that would be my> >> go-to, but I don't know how best to go about doing the hole punching,> >> so I would appreciate any suggestions or experiences. Thanks.> >> ________________________________________________________> >> This is the Synth-diy mailing list> >> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org> >> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/> >> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy> >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org> >> ________________________________________________________> >> This is the Synth-diy mailing list> >> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org> >> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/> >> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy> >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org> > ________________________________________________________> > This is the Synth-diy mailing list> > Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org> > View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/> > Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org> > --> BugBrand LTD> UK company No. 07199808> VAT No. GB 988 2629 57> 1 Ninetree Hill> BRISTOL BS1 3SB> United Kingdom> www.bugbrand.co.uk> > ________________________________________________________> This is the Synth-diy mailing list> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org> ________________________________________________________This is the Synth-diy mailing listSubmit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.orgView archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diySelling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From dankedout415 at gmail.com  Tue Jun 16 03:27:11 2026
From: dankedout415 at gmail.com (Slope 114)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2026 18:27:11 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
 equipment?
In-Reply-To: <202606152337.65FNbKH6068334@dropmix.synth-diy.org>
References: <qs25PTWsphYBi01BUZkKKFcnEtcaUjEgS3HHNKT2EnVway4pRa-QQ7jas2e0eJgi9yG9UGziLsPcHxny7DoTNRLl1pofFOmql2lR6mXV0go=@chromatest.net>
 <202606152337.65FNbKH6068334@dropmix.synth-diy.org>
Message-ID: <CAHbPdL7UYh8GRy6twUp2mHgbbL+z7Kp8tvOH8uO5boGxFA_3yw@mail.gmail.com>

Whatever you do_ Don?t accidentally plug the output into something with
phantom power & not notice it for a while.
The processing section will all stop working .



On Monday, June 15, 2026, Tony Mowbray via Synth-diy <
synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> Slow and steady is the best process. If you don't feel benevolent towards
> it, wait until later.
>
> Excellent work can be done without the fancy tool (and sometimes they cost
> quite a few dollars) just how slow and steady
>
>
>
> Regards
> Tony Mowbray
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: "Chromatest J. Pantsmaker via Synth-diy" <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> Date: 16/6/26 9:20?am (GMT+10:00)
> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
> equipment?
>
> I've done pretty well using a step drill and a small file.  You definitely
> want to punch the exact center of the XLR though.
>
>
>
> On Monday, June 15th, 2026 at 4:04 PM, Tom Bugs via Synth-diy <
> synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> > I've used a few Q Max punches of various diameters - they're very good.
> >
> >
> > On 15/06/2026 23:16, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> > > I won't be replacing the TRS socket, I'll be putting the XLR in an
> empty space.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the product suggestions so far, I'll check them out.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2026 at 9:26?PM BrightBoy via Synth-diy
> > > <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> > >> In the USA, Greenlee has been the defacto chassis punch manufacturer
> since the industrial age started.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I also recommend getting the stout automatic center punch to make
> sure your drill doesn't walk
> > >> on the mounting holes.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> My favorite? The heavy duty Starrett #18C
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Good luck!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> BB
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com>
> > >> Sent: Jun 15, 2026 3:12 PM
> > >> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>, cheater cheater <
> cheater00social at gmail.com>
> > >> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on
> rack equipment?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Lots of punches available, but the problem for you will be making
> something of the exact diameter of the TRS socket to centralise the punch.
> Then make up a template to punch the mounting holes.
> > >> ________________________________
> > >> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of
> cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> > >> Sent: 15 June 2026 19:45
> > >> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> > >> Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
> equipment?
> > >>
> > >> I have a couple dbx 286s units, and in their infinite wisdom dbx did
> > >> not include XLR output, only input, so I'm looking for a good clean
> > >> way to install a high quality xlr output plug. It already has balanced
> > >> TRS, so electrically it isn't anything spectacular, but I'm looking to
> > >> punch the enclosure in a nice way and then install the plug. I was
> > >> wondering if anyone had experience with this, and can recommend a good
> > >> combination of panel mount XLR jack and a punch that makes holes that
> > >> fit it well. I know Neutrik do panel mount XLR, so that would be my
> > >> go-to, but I don't know how best to go about doing the hole punching,
> > >> so I would appreciate any suggestions or experiences. Thanks.
> > >> ________________________________________________________
> > >> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> > >> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > >> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> > >> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/
> listinfo/synth-diy
> > >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> > >> ________________________________________________________
> > >> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> > >> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > >> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> > >> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/
> listinfo/synth-diy
> > >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> > > ________________________________________________________
> > > This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> > > Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > > View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> > > Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/
> listinfo/synth-diy
> > > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
> > --
> > BugBrand LTD
> > UK company No. 07199808
> > VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
> > 1 Ninetree Hill
> > BRISTOL BS1 3SB
> > United Kingdom
> > www.bugbrand.co.uk
> >
> > ________________________________________________________
> > This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> > Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> > Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From list at mikebeauchamp.com  Tue Jun 16 04:27:00 2026
From: list at mikebeauchamp.com (Mike Beauchamp)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2026 22:27:00 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
 equipment?
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-8-fnyUTa-ROkSwsRjvFkP_OzGYEGLSYEihqzEi+0OSGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-8-fnyUTa-ROkSwsRjvFkP_OzGYEGLSYEihqzEi+0OSGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f0822cc-bd3d-4ee2-adaa-1ce17e76b57f@mikebeauchamp.com>

I'd probably just make some 1/4" TRS to XLR pigtails and not punch any 
holes in anything.

But if you do want to make holes, switchcraft make panel mount XLR's 
(like this: 
https://nextgenguitars.ca/products/switchcraft-d3f-xlr-female-panel-jack.html 
) that hide the hole. I'd just center-punch, then drill a small pilot 
hole and use a stepped drill bit.

Hope that helps!

Mike


On 2026-06-15 14:45, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> I have a couple dbx 286s units, and in their infinite wisdom dbx did
> not include XLR output, only input, so I'm looking for a good clean
> way to install a high quality xlr output plug. It already has balanced
> TRS, so electrically it isn't anything spectacular, but I'm looking to
> punch the enclosure in a nice way and then install the plug. I was
> wondering if anyone had experience with this, and can recommend a good
> combination of panel mount XLR jack and a punch that makes holes that
> fit it well. I know Neutrik do panel mount XLR, so that would be my
> go-to, but I don't know how best to go about doing the hole punching,
> so I would appreciate any suggestions or experiences. Thanks.
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 

From synthdiy at adambaby.com  Tue Jun 16 04:51:08 2026
From: synthdiy at adambaby.com (Adam (synthDIY))
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2026 12:51:08 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
 equipment?
In-Reply-To: <1f0822cc-bd3d-4ee2-adaa-1ce17e76b57f@mikebeauchamp.com>
References: <CAGn5V-8-fnyUTa-ROkSwsRjvFkP_OzGYEGLSYEihqzEi+0OSGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1f0822cc-bd3d-4ee2-adaa-1ce17e76b57f@mikebeauchamp.com>
Message-ID: <DBE2EBCC-9B6D-4D61-B38F-62AB1BD08894@adambaby.com>



> On 16 Jun 2026, at 12:27, Mike Beauchamp <list at mikebeauchamp.com> wrote:
> 
> I'd probably just make some 1/4" TRS to XLR pigtails and not punch any holes in anything.
> 

Yes, that would be my option too, surely the easiest in terms of work, and you don't alter what might become one day a "vintage" unit.

A

From loscha at gmail.com  Tue Jun 16 13:48:57 2026
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2026 21:48:57 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
 equipment?
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-8-fnyUTa-ROkSwsRjvFkP_OzGYEGLSYEihqzEi+0OSGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-8-fnyUTa-ROkSwsRjvFkP_OzGYEGLSYEihqzEi+0OSGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA25cvfxov2s8fThrMbagWtps5XMUb86i1aRh4woiej6YZbA6w@mail.gmail.com>

Would you be open to the notion of drilling holes and having line affixed
XLR outs on cables dangling on leads out of those smaller perfectly round,
easily drillable and grommitable holes?

/Edward

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 at 04:53, cheater cheater via Synth-diy <
synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> I have a couple dbx 286s units, and in their infinite wisdom dbx did
> not include XLR output, only input, so I'm looking for a good clean
> way to install a high quality xlr output plug. It already has balanced
> TRS, so electrically it isn't anything spectacular, but I'm looking to
> punch the enclosure in a nice way and then install the plug. I was
> wondering if anyone had experience with this, and can recommend a good
> combination of panel mount XLR jack and a punch that makes holes that
> fit it well. I know Neutrik do panel mount XLR, so that would be my
> go-to, but I don't know how best to go about doing the hole punching,
> so I would appreciate any suggestions or experiences. Thanks.
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue Jun 16 15:20:42 2026
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2026 14:20:42 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Pitch shift in modulated BBD delays
Message-ID: <FE86A0D4-7609-40A3-AA6A-98F875097978@electricdruid.net>

I've spent a long time wondering about how the LFO waveshape relates to the final pitch shift you get when modulating a BBD clock, as you would in a Chorus or Flanger circuit. Or even a delay-based analogue vibrato, come to that.

I recently managed to get some interactive demonstrations done, which I think make the whole thing a lot easier to understand. Here's the finished article. Perhaps some of you will find it interesting.

https://electricdruid.net/weird-wiggles-bbd-clock-modulation/ <https://electricdruid.net/weird-wiggles-bbd-clock-modulation/>

Any thoughts, comments, or error-spotting appreciated.

Thanks,
Tom
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From cheater00social at gmail.com  Tue Jun 16 18:21:26 2026
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2026 18:21:26 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
 equipment?
In-Reply-To: <CAHbPdL7UYh8GRy6twUp2mHgbbL+z7Kp8tvOH8uO5boGxFA_3yw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <qs25PTWsphYBi01BUZkKKFcnEtcaUjEgS3HHNKT2EnVway4pRa-QQ7jas2e0eJgi9yG9UGziLsPcHxny7DoTNRLl1pofFOmql2lR6mXV0go=@chromatest.net>
 <202606152337.65FNbKH6068334@dropmix.synth-diy.org>
 <CAHbPdL7UYh8GRy6twUp2mHgbbL+z7Kp8tvOH8uO5boGxFA_3yw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-_bL97z8kOVQyD9mOO7Ri6-teyQ+Hpfig8HhAWpWEkoUw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jun 16, 2026 at 3:34?AM Slope 114 via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> Whatever you do_ Don?t accidentally plug the output into something with phantom power & not notice it for a while.
> The processing section will all stop working .

Have you experienced such breakage with dbx gear, or are you talking in general?

The dbx output board has a bunch of passives on both input (probably
for providing phantom) and output (and I wonder if this is for
protection against phantom).

Can someone make out what's happening on the board?

The connectors are:

J1 - XLR input
J2 - TRS balanced input
J3 - TRS insert send/return
J4 - TRS balanced output

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325546155545

>
>
> On Monday, June 15, 2026, Tony Mowbray via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>
>> Slow and steady is the best process. If you don't feel benevolent towards it, wait until later.
>>
>> Excellent work can be done without the fancy tool (and sometimes they cost quite a few dollars) just how slow and steady
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> Tony Mowbray
>>
>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: "Chromatest J. Pantsmaker via Synth-diy" <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> Date: 16/6/26 9:20?am (GMT+10:00)
>> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment?
>>
>> I've done pretty well using a step drill and a small file.  You definitely want to punch the exact center of the XLR though.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, June 15th, 2026 at 4:04 PM, Tom Bugs via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>
>> > I've used a few Q Max punches of various diameters - they're very good.
>> >
>> >
>> > On 15/06/2026 23:16, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
>> > > I won't be replacing the TRS socket, I'll be putting the XLR in an empty space.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks for the product suggestions so far, I'll check them out.
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2026 at 9:26?PM BrightBoy via Synth-diy
>> > > <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> > >> In the USA, Greenlee has been the defacto chassis punch manufacturer since the industrial age started.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> I also recommend getting the stout automatic center punch to make sure your drill doesn't walk
>> > >> on the mounting holes.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> My favorite? The heavy duty Starrett #18C
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Good luck!
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> BB
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > >> From: Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com>
>> > >> Sent: Jun 15, 2026 3:12 PM
>> > >> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>, cheater cheater <cheater00social at gmail.com>
>> > >> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment?
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Lots of punches available, but the problem for you will be making something of the exact diameter of the TRS socket to centralise the punch.  Then make up a template to punch the mounting holes.
>> > >> ________________________________
>> > >> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> > >> Sent: 15 June 2026 19:45
>> > >> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> > >> Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment?
>> > >>
>> > >> I have a couple dbx 286s units, and in their infinite wisdom dbx did
>> > >> not include XLR output, only input, so I'm looking for a good clean
>> > >> way to install a high quality xlr output plug. It already has balanced
>> > >> TRS, so electrically it isn't anything spectacular, but I'm looking to
>> > >> punch the enclosure in a nice way and then install the plug. I was
>> > >> wondering if anyone had experience with this, and can recommend a good
>> > >> combination of panel mount XLR jack and a punch that makes holes that
>> > >> fit it well. I know Neutrik do panel mount XLR, so that would be my
>> > >> go-to, but I don't know how best to go about doing the hole punching,
>> > >> so I would appreciate any suggestions or experiences. Thanks.
>> > >> ________________________________________________________
>> > >> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> > >> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> > >> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> > >> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> > >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> > >> ________________________________________________________
>> > >> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> > >> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> > >> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> > >> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> > >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> > > ________________________________________________________
>> > > This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> > > Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> > > View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> > > Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> > > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> >
>> > --
>> > BugBrand LTD
>> > UK company No. 07199808
>> > VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
>> > 1 Ninetree Hill
>> > BRISTOL BS1 3SB
>> > United Kingdom
>> > www.bugbrand.co.uk
>> >
>> > ________________________________________________________
>> > This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> > Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> > View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> > Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> >
>>
>> ________________________________________________________
>> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From cheater00social at gmail.com  Tue Jun 16 18:23:21 2026
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2026 18:23:21 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
 equipment?
In-Reply-To: <DBE2EBCC-9B6D-4D61-B38F-62AB1BD08894@adambaby.com>
References: <CAGn5V-8-fnyUTa-ROkSwsRjvFkP_OzGYEGLSYEihqzEi+0OSGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1f0822cc-bd3d-4ee2-adaa-1ce17e76b57f@mikebeauchamp.com>
 <DBE2EBCC-9B6D-4D61-B38F-62AB1BD08894@adambaby.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-9SPgqZin38cOaN=4rUhWd3LWmkMY5CNAgsGop3m1bygg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jun 16, 2026 at 4:58?AM Adam (synthDIY) <synthdiy at adambaby.com> wrote:
>
> > On 16 Jun 2026, at 12:27, Mike Beauchamp <list at mikebeauchamp.com> wrote:
> >
> > I'd probably just make some 1/4" TRS to XLR pigtails and not punch any holes in anything.
> >
>
> Yes, that would be my option too, surely the easiest in terms of work, and you don't alter what might become one day a "vintage" unit.
>

Those are $40 units, infinite in number on the market, and XLR is a
clear and obvious upgrade here especially for not having to have a
mess of pigtails and weird cables. Also, it'll be satisfying.


From cheater00social at gmail.com  Tue Jun 16 18:25:10 2026
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2026 18:25:10 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
 equipment?
In-Reply-To: <CAA25cvfxov2s8fThrMbagWtps5XMUb86i1aRh4woiej6YZbA6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-8-fnyUTa-ROkSwsRjvFkP_OzGYEGLSYEihqzEi+0OSGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA25cvfxov2s8fThrMbagWtps5XMUb86i1aRh4woiej6YZbA6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-9dZKUFj8QDc7Rf6MxepY20DwCmS7xttgRX+Pdzqs0ieA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jun 16, 2026 at 1:57?PM Loscha via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> Would you be open to the notion of drilling holes and having line affixed XLR outs on cables dangling on leads out of those smaller perfectly round, easily drillable and grommitable holes?
>
> /Edward

No reason for such a crude display of brutality, there's plenty space
in the back of the unit for it. The boxes are almost fully empty, all
the electronics are on the front panel, there's also a linear power
supply which occupies roughly 1/32 of the volume, and a tiny output
board.


From dankedout415 at gmail.com  Tue Jun 16 20:43:37 2026
From: dankedout415 at gmail.com (Slope 114)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2026 11:43:37 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
 equipment?
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-_bL97z8kOVQyD9mOO7Ri6-teyQ+Hpfig8HhAWpWEkoUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <qs25PTWsphYBi01BUZkKKFcnEtcaUjEgS3HHNKT2EnVway4pRa-QQ7jas2e0eJgi9yG9UGziLsPcHxny7DoTNRLl1pofFOmql2lR6mXV0go=@chromatest.net>
 <202606152337.65FNbKH6068334@dropmix.synth-diy.org>
 <CAHbPdL7UYh8GRy6twUp2mHgbbL+z7Kp8tvOH8uO5boGxFA_3yw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGn5V-_bL97z8kOVQyD9mOO7Ri6-teyQ+Hpfig8HhAWpWEkoUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHbPdL6rq1N+oi71JxJ5_a=bQumiWLbiVgufWzSicDQCfSxN7g@mail.gmail.com>

My dbx286s recently stopped working.
I like to use it to compress vocals on the way into EHX 95000 looper.
Didn?t notice the phantom button on back of the EHX was accidentally pushed
in. By the time I noticed the processing section of 286s stopped working.
Preamp still works, still outputs a signal but the compressor is dead.
Havn?t opened it yet.
It got a lot of use from us though. Every gig for about 8 years.

On Tuesday, June 16, 2026, cheater cheater <cheater00social at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 16, 2026 at 3:34?AM Slope 114 via Synth-diy
> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> >
> > Whatever you do_ Don?t accidentally plug the output into something with
> phantom power & not notice it for a while.
> > The processing section will all stop working .
>
> Have you experienced such breakage with dbx gear, or are you talking in
> general?
>
> The dbx output board has a bunch of passives on both input (probably
> for providing phantom) and output (and I wonder if this is for
> protection against phantom).
>
> Can someone make out what's happening on the board?
>
> The connectors are:
>
> J1 - XLR input
> J2 - TRS balanced input
> J3 - TRS insert send/return
> J4 - TRS balanced output
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/325546155545
>
> >
> >
> > On Monday, June 15, 2026, Tony Mowbray via Synth-diy <
> synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Slow and steady is the best process. If you don't feel benevolent
> towards it, wait until later.
> >>
> >> Excellent work can be done without the fancy tool (and sometimes they
> cost quite a few dollars) just how slow and steady
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Tony Mowbray
> >>
> >> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> >>
> >>
> >> -------- Original message --------
> >> From: "Chromatest J. Pantsmaker via Synth-diy" <synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >
> >> Date: 16/6/26 9:20?am (GMT+10:00)
> >> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
> equipment?
> >>
> >> I've done pretty well using a step drill and a small file.  You
> definitely want to punch the exact center of the XLR though.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Monday, June 15th, 2026 at 4:04 PM, Tom Bugs via Synth-diy <
> synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I've used a few Q Max punches of various diameters - they're very
> good.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 15/06/2026 23:16, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> >> > > I won't be replacing the TRS socket, I'll be putting the XLR in an
> empty space.
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks for the product suggestions so far, I'll check them out.
> >> > >
> >> > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2026 at 9:26?PM BrightBoy via Synth-diy
> >> > > <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> >> > >> In the USA, Greenlee has been the defacto chassis punch
> manufacturer since the industrial age started.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I also recommend getting the stout automatic center punch to make
> sure your drill doesn't walk
> >> > >> on the mounting holes.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> My favorite? The heavy duty Starrett #18C
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Good luck!
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> BB
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> -----Original Message-----
> >> > >> From: Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com>
> >> > >> Sent: Jun 15, 2026 3:12 PM
> >> > >> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>, cheater cheater <
> cheater00social at gmail.com>
> >> > >> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on
> rack equipment?
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Lots of punches available, but the problem for you will be making
> something of the exact diameter of the TRS socket to centralise the punch.
> Then make up a template to punch the mounting holes.
> >> > >> ________________________________
> >> > >> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of
> cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> >> > >> Sent: 15 June 2026 19:45
> >> > >> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> >> > >> Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on
> rack equipment?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I have a couple dbx 286s units, and in their infinite wisdom dbx
> did
> >> > >> not include XLR output, only input, so I'm looking for a good clean
> >> > >> way to install a high quality xlr output plug. It already has
> balanced
> >> > >> TRS, so electrically it isn't anything spectacular, but I'm
> looking to
> >> > >> punch the enclosure in a nice way and then install the plug. I was
> >> > >> wondering if anyone had experience with this, and can recommend a
> good
> >> > >> combination of panel mount XLR jack and a punch that makes holes
> that
> >> > >> fit it well. I know Neutrik do panel mount XLR, so that would be my
> >> > >> go-to, but I don't know how best to go about doing the hole
> punching,
> >> > >> so I would appreciate any suggestions or experiences. Thanks.
> >> > >> ________________________________________________________
> >> > >> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> >> > >> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >> > >> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> >> > >> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/
> listinfo/synth-diy
> >> > >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >> > >> ________________________________________________________
> >> > >> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> >> > >> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >> > >> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> >> > >> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/
> listinfo/synth-diy
> >> > >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >> > > ________________________________________________________
> >> > > This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> >> > > Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >> > > View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> >> > > Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/
> listinfo/synth-diy
> >> > > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > BugBrand LTD
> >> > UK company No. 07199808
> >> > VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
> >> > 1 Ninetree Hill
> >> > BRISTOL BS1 3SB
> >> > United Kingdom
> >> > www.bugbrand.co.uk
> >> >
> >> > ________________________________________________________
> >> > This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> >> > Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >> > View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> >> > Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/
> listinfo/synth-diy
> >> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >> >
> >>
> >> ________________________________________________________
> >> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> >> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/
> listinfo/synth-diy
> >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
> > ________________________________________________________
> > This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> > Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> > Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From cheater00social at gmail.com  Tue Jun 16 20:49:30 2026
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2026 20:49:30 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack
 equipment?
In-Reply-To: <CAHbPdL6rq1N+oi71JxJ5_a=bQumiWLbiVgufWzSicDQCfSxN7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <qs25PTWsphYBi01BUZkKKFcnEtcaUjEgS3HHNKT2EnVway4pRa-QQ7jas2e0eJgi9yG9UGziLsPcHxny7DoTNRLl1pofFOmql2lR6mXV0go=@chromatest.net>
 <202606152337.65FNbKH6068334@dropmix.synth-diy.org>
 <CAHbPdL7UYh8GRy6twUp2mHgbbL+z7Kp8tvOH8uO5boGxFA_3yw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGn5V-_bL97z8kOVQyD9mOO7Ri6-teyQ+Hpfig8HhAWpWEkoUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHbPdL6rq1N+oi71JxJ5_a=bQumiWLbiVgufWzSicDQCfSxN7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-97+zppKvvXuj8-1V7GXvB-0wVzRtE4UXzz0Mhe96P-HQ@mail.gmail.com>

good to know - thanks so much, I'll be careful.

The phantom voltage blocker circuit is relatively simple:
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/phantom-power-blocking.1513464/

Maybe that's what the passives on the jack board do? It's the only
explanation I have for them.

In which case it would be surprising your dbx died, but also maybe not
connected to phantom power.


On Tue, Jun 16, 2026 at 8:43?PM Slope 114 <dankedout415 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My dbx286s recently stopped working.
> I like to use it to compress vocals on the way into EHX 95000 looper. Didn?t notice the phantom button on back of the EHX was accidentally pushed in. By the time I noticed the processing section of 286s stopped working. Preamp still works, still outputs a signal but the compressor is dead.
> Havn?t opened it yet.
> It got a lot of use from us though. Every gig for about 8 years.
>
> On Tuesday, June 16, 2026, cheater cheater <cheater00social at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2026 at 3:34?AM Slope 114 via Synth-diy
>> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Whatever you do_ Don?t accidentally plug the output into something with phantom power & not notice it for a while.
>> > The processing section will all stop working .
>>
>> Have you experienced such breakage with dbx gear, or are you talking in general?
>>
>> The dbx output board has a bunch of passives on both input (probably
>> for providing phantom) and output (and I wonder if this is for
>> protection against phantom).
>>
>> Can someone make out what's happening on the board?
>>
>> The connectors are:
>>
>> J1 - XLR input
>> J2 - TRS balanced input
>> J3 - TRS insert send/return
>> J4 - TRS balanced output
>>
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/325546155545
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > On Monday, June 15, 2026, Tony Mowbray via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Slow and steady is the best process. If you don't feel benevolent towards it, wait until later.
>> >>
>> >> Excellent work can be done without the fancy tool (and sometimes they cost quite a few dollars) just how slow and steady
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >> Tony Mowbray
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -------- Original message --------
>> >> From: "Chromatest J. Pantsmaker via Synth-diy" <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> >> Date: 16/6/26 9:20?am (GMT+10:00)
>> >> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment?
>> >>
>> >> I've done pretty well using a step drill and a small file.  You definitely want to punch the exact center of the XLR though.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Monday, June 15th, 2026 at 4:04 PM, Tom Bugs via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I've used a few Q Max punches of various diameters - they're very good.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On 15/06/2026 23:16, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
>> >> > > I won't be replacing the TRS socket, I'll be putting the XLR in an empty space.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Thanks for the product suggestions so far, I'll check them out.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2026 at 9:26?PM BrightBoy via Synth-diy
>> >> > > <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> >> > >> In the USA, Greenlee has been the defacto chassis punch manufacturer since the industrial age started.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> I also recommend getting the stout automatic center punch to make sure your drill doesn't walk
>> >> > >> on the mounting holes.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> My favorite? The heavy duty Starrett #18C
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Good luck!
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> BB
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> > >> From: Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com>
>> >> > >> Sent: Jun 15, 2026 3:12 PM
>> >> > >> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>, cheater cheater <cheater00social at gmail.com>
>> >> > >> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment?
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Lots of punches available, but the problem for you will be making something of the exact diameter of the TRS socket to centralise the punch.  Then make up a template to punch the mounting holes.
>> >> > >> ________________________________
>> >> > >> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> >> > >> Sent: 15 June 2026 19:45
>> >> > >> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> >> > >> Subject: [sdiy] Installing good looking XLR panel connector on rack equipment?
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> I have a couple dbx 286s units, and in their infinite wisdom dbx did
>> >> > >> not include XLR output, only input, so I'm looking for a good clean
>> >> > >> way to install a high quality xlr output plug. It already has balanced
>> >> > >> TRS, so electrically it isn't anything spectacular, but I'm looking to
>> >> > >> punch the enclosure in a nice way and then install the plug. I was
>> >> > >> wondering if anyone had experience with this, and can recommend a good
>> >> > >> combination of panel mount XLR jack and a punch that makes holes that
>> >> > >> fit it well. I know Neutrik do panel mount XLR, so that would be my
>> >> > >> go-to, but I don't know how best to go about doing the hole punching,
>> >> > >> so I would appreciate any suggestions or experiences. Thanks.
>> >> > >> ________________________________________________________
>> >> > >> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> >> > >> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> >> > >> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> >> > >> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> >> > >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> >> > >> ________________________________________________________
>> >> > >> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> >> > >> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> >> > >> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> >> > >> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> >> > >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> >> > > ________________________________________________________
>> >> > > This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> >> > > Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> >> > > View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> >> > > Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> >> > > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > BugBrand LTD
>> >> > UK company No. 07199808
>> >> > VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
>> >> > 1 Ninetree Hill
>> >> > BRISTOL BS1 3SB
>> >> > United Kingdom
>> >> > www.bugbrand.co.uk
>> >> >
>> >> > ________________________________________________________
>> >> > This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> >> > Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> >> > View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> >> > Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> >> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________________________________
>> >> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> >> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> >> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> >> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> >
>> > ________________________________________________________
>> > This is the Synth-diy mailing list
>> > Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> > View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
>> > Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From mec.forumreader at gmail.com  Tue Jun 16 21:07:10 2026
From: mec.forumreader at gmail.com (Michael E Caloroso)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2026 15:07:10 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Pitch shift in modulated BBD delays
In-Reply-To: <FE86A0D4-7609-40A3-AA6A-98F875097978@electricdruid.net>
References: <FE86A0D4-7609-40A3-AA6A-98F875097978@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <CAAv6=UD2+oc_rZCkKHjXpD+8tadoThrA-Ja3HyV=fByRkkWsXw@mail.gmail.com>

Study US patent 4,205,579

I don't know if this was ever used in a Roland product.

MC

On Tue, Jun 16, 2026 at 9:27?AM Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:

> I've spent a long time wondering about how the LFO waveshape relates to
> the final pitch shift you get when modulating a BBD clock, as you would in
> a Chorus or Flanger circuit. Or even a delay-based analogue vibrato, come
> to that.
>
> I recently managed to get some interactive demonstrations done, which I
> think make the whole thing a lot easier to understand. Here's the finished
> article. Perhaps some of you will find it interesting.
>
> https://electricdruid.net/weird-wiggles-bbd-clock-modulation/
>
> Any thoughts, comments, or error-spotting appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
> Check your settings at: https://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Tue Jun 16 22:21:22 2026
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordonjcp)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2026 21:21:22 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Pitch shift in modulated BBD delays
In-Reply-To: <FE86A0D4-7609-40A3-AA6A-98F875097978@electricdruid.net>
References: <FE86A0D4-7609-40A3-AA6A-98F875097978@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <20260616202122.GA21690@gjcp.net>

On Tue, Jun 16, 2026 at 02:20:42PM +0100, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
> I've spent a long time wondering about how the LFO waveshape relates to the final pitch shift you get when modulating a BBD clock, as you would in a Chorus or Flanger circuit. Or even a delay-based analogue vibrato, come to that.
> 
> I recently managed to get some interactive demonstrations done, which I think make the whole thing a lot easier to understand. Here's the finished article. Perhaps some of you will find it interesting.
> 
> https://electricdruid.net/weird-wiggles-bbd-clock-modulation/ <https://electricdruid.net/weird-wiggles-bbd-clock-modulation/>
> 
> Any thoughts, comments, or error-spotting appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom

So where does that actually happen? The chorus in the Juno 106 at least is modulated with a triangle wave at the same amplitude and one of two speeds, and gives a very distinct pitch shift - but that shift is dead steady, sharp/flat/sharp/flat deedaahdeedaah like a toy police car.

-- 
Gordonjcp


From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue Jun 16 23:42:56 2026
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2026 22:42:56 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Pitch shift in modulated BBD delays
In-Reply-To: <20260616202122.GA21690@gjcp.net>
References: <FE86A0D4-7609-40A3-AA6A-98F875097978@electricdruid.net>
 <20260616202122.GA21690@gjcp.net>
Message-ID: <17DB1A35-2721-4B6F-B13E-9E9FBF9233C8@electricdruid.net>



> On 16 Jun 2026, at 21:21, Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2026 at 02:20:42PM +0100, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>> I've spent a long time wondering about how the LFO waveshape relates to the final pitch shift you get when modulating a BBD clock, as you would in a Chorus or Flanger circuit. Or even a delay-based analogue vibrato, come to that.
>> 
>> I recently managed to get some interactive demonstrations done, which I think make the whole thing a lot easier to understand. Here's the finished article. Perhaps some of you will find it interesting.
>> 
>> https://electricdruid.net/weird-wiggles-bbd-clock-modulation/ <https://electricdruid.net/weird-wiggles-bbd-clock-modulation/>
>> 
>> Any thoughts, comments, or error-spotting appreciated.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Tom
> 
> So where does that actually happen? The chorus in the Juno 106 at least is modulated with a triangle wave at the same amplitude and one of two speeds, and gives a very distinct pitch shift - but that shift is dead steady, sharp/flat/sharp/flat deedaahdeedaah like a toy police car.

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. "Where does that happen?"...Where does what happen?! It happens in the circuit, right?!

If I'm interpreting you correctly,  I think that if you play with the sim, setting the LFO waveform to triangle, and the delay stages to something short (is it 256 or 512 in the Juno? I don't remember without looking it up) and most importantly set the modulation type to "Linear Period", you'll see a "deedahdeedah" pitch shift. It seems a lot like realising modulation of the clock period rather than the frequency was what gave Roland the edge in the chorus world. Given that, increasing the clock frequency/shortening the delay reduces the pitch shift. Lowering the clock frequency/lengthening the delay increases the pitch shift. Changing the LFO Frequency or Depth also has an effect. The sim shows the differences.

https://electricdruid.net/modulated-bbd-delay-simulation/ <https://electricdruid.net/modulated-bbd-delay-simulation/>

T.
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From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Wed Jun 17 04:57:12 2026
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2026 12:57:12 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Pitch shift in modulated BBD delays
In-Reply-To: <17DB1A35-2721-4B6F-B13E-9E9FBF9233C8@electricdruid.net>
References: <FE86A0D4-7609-40A3-AA6A-98F875097978@electricdruid.net>
 <20260616202122.GA21690@gjcp.net>
 <17DB1A35-2721-4B6F-B13E-9E9FBF9233C8@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <CAA79VLo8Nrs5vxrhc-sZiY03EyWAw4NXsQsipB2V+9n3XfQa8Q@mail.gmail.com>

Whatever the common "chorus" effect produces, it certainly isn't anything
remotely like an actual chorus.
I suspect that replacing the regular LFO with a 1/F (fractal) noise at low
frequency would be much more plausible.

paul perry Melbourne Australia

On Wed, Jun 17, 2026 at 7:49?AM Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:

>
>
> On 16 Jun 2026, at 21:21, Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2026 at 02:20:42PM +0100, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>
> I've spent a long time wondering about how the LFO waveshape relates to
> the final pitch shift you get when modulating a BBD clock, as you would in
> a Chorus or Flanger circuit. Or even a delay-based analogue vibrato, come
> to that.
>
> I recently managed to get some interactive demonstrations done, which I
> think make the whole thing a lot easier to understand. Here's the finished
> article. Perhaps some of you will find it interesting.
>
> https://electricdruid.net/weird-wiggles-bbd-clock-modulation/ <
> https://electricdruid.net/weird-wiggles-bbd-clock-modulation/>
>
> Any thoughts, comments, or error-spotting appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
>
> So where does that actually happen? The chorus in the Juno 106 at least is
> modulated with a triangle wave at the same amplitude and one of two speeds,
> and gives a very distinct pitch shift - but that shift is dead steady,
> sharp/flat/sharp/flat deedaahdeedaah like a toy police car.
>
>
> I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. "Where does that
> happen?"...Where does *what* happen?! It happens in the circuit, right?!
>
> If I'm interpreting you correctly,  I think that if you play with the sim,
> setting the LFO waveform to triangle, and the delay stages to something
> short (is it 256 or 512 in the Juno? I don't remember without looking it
> up) and most importantly set the modulation type to "Linear Period", you'll
> see a "deedahdeedah" pitch shift. It seems a lot like realising modulation
> of the clock *period* rather than the *frequency* was what gave Roland
> the edge in the chorus world. Given that, increasing the clock
> frequency/shortening the delay reduces the pitch shift. Lowering the clock
> frequency/lengthening the delay increases the pitch shift. Changing the LFO
> Frequency or Depth also has an effect. The sim shows the differences.
>
> https://electricdruid.net/modulated-bbd-delay-simulation/
>
> T.
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
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From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Wed Jun 17 07:03:39 2026
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordonjcp)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2026 06:03:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Pitch shift in modulated BBD delays
In-Reply-To: <CAA79VLo8Nrs5vxrhc-sZiY03EyWAw4NXsQsipB2V+9n3XfQa8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FE86A0D4-7609-40A3-AA6A-98F875097978@electricdruid.net>
 <20260616202122.GA21690@gjcp.net>
 <17DB1A35-2721-4B6F-B13E-9E9FBF9233C8@electricdruid.net>
 <CAA79VLo8Nrs5vxrhc-sZiY03EyWAw4NXsQsipB2V+9n3XfQa8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20260617050339.GA23483@gjcp.net>

On Wed, Jun 17, 2026 at 12:57:12PM +1000, Paul Perry via Synth-diy wrote:
> Whatever the common "chorus" effect produces, it certainly isn't anything
> remotely like an actual chorus.
> I suspect that replacing the regular LFO with a 1/F (fractal) noise at low
> frequency would be much more plausible.
> 
> paul perry Melbourne Australia

There is an effects unit called the Fairfield Shallow Water that uses a PRNG fed through a slew rate limiter to modulate a BBD which gives some nicely wobbly effects.

I thought about writing a plugin that uses something like a Lorenz attractor to generate a modulator for three delays, which might give quite a nice natural-sounding wobble to things, but I haven't done it yet.

-- 
Gordonjcp


From rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk  Wed Jun 17 10:37:45 2026
From: rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk (Richie Burnett)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2026 09:37:45 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Pitch shift in modulated BBD delays
In-Reply-To: <FE86A0D4-7609-40A3-AA6A-98F875097978@electricdruid.net>
References: <FE86A0D4-7609-40A3-AA6A-98F875097978@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <1961530B82EC4B078321072256115428@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>

Excellent article Tom.  Thanks for sharing it.

I love the interactive graphs!

Still getting my head around the details here, and it's interesting to read 
people's comments added at the end too.

The bit about a "fixed sample rate" chorus inherently behaving differently 
to a "variable sample rate" chorus is very true.  (My particular area of 
interest is in using the former to model the latter!)

-Richie,



-----Original Message----- 
From: Tom Wiltshire
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2026 2:20 PM
To: Tom Bugs via Synth-diy
Subject: [sdiy] Pitch shift in modulated BBD delays


I've spent a long time wondering about how the LFO waveshape relates to the 
final pitch shift you get when modulating a BBD clock, as you would in a 
Chorus or Flanger circuit. Or even a delay-based analogue vibrato, come to 
that.

I recently managed to get some interactive demonstrations done, which I 
think make the whole thing a lot easier to understand. Here's the finished 
article. Perhaps some of you will find it interesting.

https://electricdruid.net/weird-wiggles-bbd-clock-modulation/

Any thoughts, comments, or error-spotting appreciated.

Thanks,
Tom





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From synthdiy at adambaby.com  Wed Jun 17 11:07:27 2026
From: synthdiy at adambaby.com (Adam (synthDIY))
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2026 19:07:27 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Pitch shift in modulated BBD delays
In-Reply-To: <FE86A0D4-7609-40A3-AA6A-98F875097978@electricdruid.net>
References: <FE86A0D4-7609-40A3-AA6A-98F875097978@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <3E232643-FE2C-4895-931E-3D7D0744D164@adambaby.com>

Fabulous work Tom!

And the outcome of moving that graph slider was ... errr...  wormhole-inducing, or summat!

A

> On 16 Jun 2026, at 23:20, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
> 
> I've spent a long time wondering about how the LFO waveshape relates to the final pitch shift you get when modulating a BBD clock, as you would in a Chorus or Flanger circuit. Or even a delay-based analogue vibrato, come to that.
> 
> I recently managed to get some interactive demonstrations done, which I think make the whole thing a lot easier to understand. Here's the finished article. Perhaps some of you will find it interesting.
> 
> https://electricdruid.net/weird-wiggles-bbd-clock-modulation/
> 
> Any thoughts, comments, or error-spotting appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom
> ________________________________________________________
> This is the Synth-diy mailing list
> Submit email to: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> View archive at: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/
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> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

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