[sdiy] Magnetic String Actuation

[cheater cheater]

he's not a particularly organized fella, he probably just had some of
these and some of those. maybe he couldn't get enough or whatever.

On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 8:24 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>
>
> Looks like those are standard industrial electromagnets with heatsinks stuck on top of them as they are being overdriven.  Not sure why some have larger heatsinks.
>
> Possibly something like these https://uk.farnell.com/stephenson-gobin/58-0130-24-vdc/electromagnet-type-58/dp/7200869
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cheater cheater [mailto:cheater00social at gmail.com]
> Sent: 12 September 2022 19:07
> To: Mike Bryant
> Cc: Spiros Makris; Andrei Kudryavtsev; synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Magnetic String Actuation
>
> here you go, that's made by a guy i know https://www.spectrumpiano.com/
>
> he hired an EE to do the electronics.
>
> he says that pretty much any electromagnet that will fit the space will be fine. however, he's kind of an ass so he doesn't want to say what sort of electromagnets he used himself. i guess he wants to be the king of electromagnet piano or whatever, sheesh.
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 12:41 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
> >
> > No idea if this would work or not, but you could try removing the frame, cone and all other moving parts from an old 25W-ish loudspeaker and see if you can make a string resonate using it as at least you know you can drive it using any amplifier.
> >
> > Even by taking an old guitar string and stretching it inside the speaker coil possibly ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of
> > Spiros Makris via Synth-diy
> > Sent: 12 September 2022 10:50
> > To: Andrei Kudryavtsev
> > Cc: synth-diy mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] Magnetic String Actuation
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for all the resources and advice! Andrei, I the MRP is what set me down this path years ago, and even though I've gone through the papers (and did so again in the weekend, after your suggestion), It's still not enough for me to figure out which off the shelf component might be a reasonable starting point. For example, the size, resistance and inductance of the electromagnet is mentioned, along with a vague power rating ("20W for a brief time" or something along those lines, but unfortunately listings don't mention any of those specs (usually just wattage and pulling force), so it's still vague for me. I'm trying to move strings with much lower tension involved (basically, an electric guitar of sorts), but any details of your setup that you might be able to share will be really helpful.
> >
> > I didn't get to do any new experiments, but I ordered a few electromagnets from China, hoping I'm lucky and they are at least somewhat suitable. It's going to be a while before they arrive, so I'll have to fool around with other parts/ideas until they do.
> >
> > About the experiment I run so far, with the pickup I mentioned in my previous email:
> >
> > The coil was placed at various spots along the string so I expect I eventually must have placed it over the correct position. I tuned an oscillator to the frequency of the bass string of my instrument and tried to drive the signal into the coil using a class D amp. I could hear the coil vibrate and whenever I pointed it towards the pickups of the guitar, they would pickup the sound from more than 10cm away. Moving the actuator in the vicinity of the pickups' permanent magnets, it vibrated, essentially acting as a speaker coil, which is to be expected I suppose. I tried various placements along the string, with different orientations and power levels but couldn't get anything from the string. I *think* I managed to get some very slight vibration eventually but it was so faint I'm kinda doubting it now, in retrospect. I also tried to lightly pluck the string in order to get the vibration started, with no obvious effects. This was repeated with a permanent magnet placed on the coil, which seemed to change how the coil interacted with the pickups but other than that didn't improve anything.
> >
> > I wanted to try the sustainer configuration as well, but didn't have any preamps handy in order to patch it up. Maybe I can dig into my boxes and give it a try today.
> >
> > I'm starting to realise that the electric guitar is less than suitable for these experiments. The pickups listen to all the EM rubbish I'm throwing in the air making any sort of feedback that involves them very impractical, not to mention the interaction between coil and pickup magnets. Maybe I should tension a steel string or two on a wooden plank and add a piezo pickup to get over this limitation.
> >
> > I'll try to get on #audioworld and see if I can track down efex. Hopefully they'll be inclined to share some of their wisdom on the matter.
> >
> >
> >
> > Spiros
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2022, 23:39 Andrei Kudryavtsev via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I suggest studying all papers from the research on MRP that Andrew McPherson ran over a decade ago. There are several, not one or two... It's exactly what you're trying to achieve and very easy to demonstrate how difficult the task is to induce the string vibration when it is at rest. That's why MRP works and sounds that way.
> >
> > All research is public including hardware decisions.
> >
> > I'm in MRP topic quite deeply, already have it ongoing for quite a while with a donor piano already. Magnetic resonators are off the shelf.
> >
> > http://instrumentslab.org/research/mrp.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 12:46 PM Olav Martin Kvern via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> >
> > In addition to the amazing Segulharpa mentioned earlier, you might
> > find this instrument from Godfried-Willem Raes/Logos Foundation
> > interesting
> > (note: there is some minor "artistic" nudity on some Logos Foundation
> > pages):
> >
> > https://logosfoundation.org/instrum_gwr/aeio.html
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Olav
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> >
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