[sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

Chris Juried cjuried at yahoo.com
Tue May 25 15:25:08 CEST 2021 

I can relate. I spend in the order of $150,000 per year on IC's and only purchase from 100% authentic sources. 


Sincerely,

Christopher Juried 

https://juriedengineering.com/

FCC Licensed RF Coordinator

Audio Engineering Society (AES) Member

 
 
  On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 8:42 AM, Mike Bryant<mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:   I buy over £10,000 of parts a year, so definitely get the volume.  That's probably 25% LCSC/JLCPCB, 50% China/Philipines/etc (Alibaba, AliExpress, eBay and others) and 25% RS.

I am very careful who I order from on AliExpress and eBay, but I accept I'm in a different position to you as I'm producing new designs, usually for production in China, so using modern components that can be easily sourced there.  
Rare 'vintage' parts are probably more likely to attract fraudsters.

However with parts such as ST microcontrollers and memories now being on 12 months delivery, I expect to see reclaimed parts from dead PCBs appearing which will pose another issue.

-----Original Message-----
From: mark verbos [mailto:markverbos at gmail.com] 
Sent: 25 May 2021 13:21
To: Mike Bryant
Cc: Tom Wiltshire; ShedSynth; synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

Mike,
You have been lucky, or maybe just haven’t taken as many shots as I have.
Recently I needed 2 DG200 metal cans for a project. I have bought 8 on eBay to get to 2 working ones. It took me a while to accept that the one I had here and 2 others from eBay were all fakes, but then I ordered form a new place and still got more fakes, or at least not working ones. 

I am using a recently discontinued FIFO in a product. I bought them from a Chinese supplier from Alibaba, we’ve had around 30% junk on our reels. 

I have cloned the OB-MX voice board and collected a vast array of rare ICs from Alibaba companies. The card doesn’t work yet, so I am about to start the painful process of putting all of these chips onto my working board to see which ones are bullshit. Then, have no choice but to play Russian Roulette again to get replacements. 

As soon as I get this working, I will redesign it in SMT so I can pick N place it and get the much more available parts. 


Mark





> On May 22, 2021, at 6:25 PM, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
> 
> Totally agree you have to check every package contains what you ordered.  And if not ask for a refund from eBay or AliExpress which you get automatically.
> 
> But at least 99% of the time you'll get the genuine thing.  Most of these ICs come from one of several surplus electronic component markets.  One of them in Shenzhen was in the news this week when the whole tower shook for some reason despite no earthquake.
> 
> This is a very big business where wholesalers buy run-ends from contract and OEM manufacturers, from Foxconn downwards, and then send out lists of what they have to hundreds of small two man and a dog companies who advertise on AliExpress/eBay.  That is why you often see the same component and photograph from several suppliers.  Once they have orders they go and buy the components from the wholesaler and ship it to you.  But of course this system allows those making counterfeits to slip them into the system.
> 
> But the only fakes I've encountered were ten OPA2134s in DIP-8.  I think they were LM394s or something like that so I just got my refund and used them as such.
> Biggest bargain - an end reel of 138 OPA2134s in SOIC-8 at 21p each.  I'd assumed they were something else but at that price it was worth a punt, and they were absolutely genuine.  Presumably the OEM orders by the thousand or more and the contract PCB assembler didn't want to change reel half way even on an expensive part like this.  If you order volume PCBs from China you will see  'wastage' number in the invoice but was surprised the OEM allowed this many to go to waste.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of 
> Tom Wiltshire
> Sent: 22 May 2021 13:44
> To: ShedSynth
> Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
> 
> 
> In my opinion, trustworthiness of the source, primarily.
> 
> On eBay, you’re buying a chip. It might have the right number of legs. It might be marked with the right writing. It might even be the right chip. But that’s definitely not always the case.
> 
> 
>> On 22 May 2021, at 11:22, ShedSynth via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> 
>> What are the practical differences between the TI/CoolAudio LM13700 
>> and eBay items like these which still appear to have stock?
>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162776473998
>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172160273446
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Al
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of 
>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca
>> Sent: 19 May 2021 13:07
>> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>> 
>> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is 
>> the DIP version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and 
>> links to this discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the 
>> last order date May 12,
>> 2022:
>> 
>> https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_202105121
>> 2
>> 340278
>> .pdf
>> 
>> I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which 
>> still shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
>> 
>> CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP 
>> and SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio 
>> doesn't sell it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a 
>> Web search for the purported part number of V13700D only turns up the 
>> data sheet.  I don't believe it really exists in any way accessible 
>> to hobbyists.  Maybe they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.
>> 
>> A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational 
>> transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through 
>> LCSC, which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.
>> They do note in their data sheet that there are differences in the 
>> buffer units between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own 
>> surface-mount version of a similar part).  Interestingly, they claim 
>> that the DIP version is better - in which case why make them different at all?
>> 
>> Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the 
>> Web site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, 
>> which is a 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
>> Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
>> 
>> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in general.
>> As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole version 
>> from a major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for 
>> through-hole analog electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue 
>> this product, that means the market in question is now too small to 
>> be worth serving anymore, and that assessment will be applied to other products too.  Memento mori.
>> 
>> --
>> Matthew Skala
>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                People before tribes.
>> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
>> _______________________________________________
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