[sdiy] Waveform mixing - normalization?

[eidorian at aladan.net]

Hi Matthias,

Re: osc sync you raise a good point - mixing different types of
waveforms from unsynced oscillators would probably be subtly different
to mixing those same types from the one oscillator, due to detuning
and beating.

As far as the peak-to-peak issue is concerned, what you say is
correct, although I think it misses the point I was trying to make
about perceived waveform loudness vs. peak-to-peak voltage
differences.  Yes, different circuits would have different
characteristics - as a supporting example the CEM3340 has quite
different high and low thresholds for its four waveforms.

I interpreted the original poster's use of "normalising" to mean
"making all the waveforms sound like they're the same volume to a
human" which is not the formal definition of normalising, but which I
thought was the intent of the original comments.  Are you suggesting
he means "keep the same total volume when two or more waveforms are
selected and mixed" (by attenuating each waveform when mixing more
than one?)

Regretfully I am easily misled and often misunderstood :-)

Cheers,
A.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mattias Rickardsson" <mr at analogue.org>
To:"Adrian C" <eidorian at aladan.net>
Cc:"neil harper" <metadata at gmx.com>, "Tom Wiltshire"
<tom at electricdruid.net>, "synthdiy diy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent:Mon, 9 May 2016 23:41:52 +0200
Subject:Re: [sdiy] Waveform mixing - normalization?

 On 6 May 2016 at 07:10, <eidorian at aladan.net> wrote:
 > Horses for courses. Plenty of synths (both new and old) offer
waveform
 > mixing, but in a multi-oscillator synth I suspect it's not so
important
 > since you can combine different waveforms from different
oscillators in
 > order to get the same effect.

 Only if oscillator sync is available.

 > Regarding waveform normalisation - yes, I think plenty of
(generally modern)
 > synths must use it, because a triangle or sine with the same
waveform height
 > (i.e. peak-to-peak voltage difference) is very different in
perceived volume
 > to a square wave or sawtooth.

 There is no reason why the different waveforms would have the same
 peak-to-peak levels.

 > So a vendor might well adjust the volume of
 > different waveforms to match human ear expectations to avoid sonic
 > accidents. On synths where this isn't the case simply changing from
one
 > type of waveform to another results a significant and sudden change
in
 > volume.

 This is not the normalization that Neil was asking about. He was
 referring to normalizing mixes of more than one waveform.

 > I have often been known to patch multiple waveforms outputs from
one
 > oscillator into different filter/amplitude/other modulation paths
on my
 > modular, mainly when making drone music.

 That's an interesting way of using them! :-)

 /mr

 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From:
 > "neil harper" <metadata at gmx.com>
 >
 > To:
 > "Mattias Rickardsson" <mr at analogue.org>, "Tom Wiltshire"
 > <tom at electricdruid.net>
 > Cc:
 > "synthdiy diy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
 > Sent:
 > Fri, 6 May 2016 00:23:05 -0400
 > Subject:
 > Re: [sdiy] Waveform mixing - normalization?
 >
 >
 >
 > I've never seen any normalization either.
 >>
 >> Can't make up my mind about free oscillator levels & mixing, it
seems
 >> like the advantage is often lost. In a way I'd prefer
normalization
 >> and a filter overdrive control at a later stage.
 >>
 >> To be honest I've never really missed waveform mixing in a
 >> one-waveform-selection-synth either. It feels like a relic from
the
 >> dawn of synthesis, an additive timbre shaping method that is
rarely
 >> very useful or interesting compared to waveform modulation,
audio-rate
 >> modulation and subtractive shaping. Do you guys like and use
waveform
 >> mixing?
 >>
 >> /mr
 >>
 >
 > I got the impression that waveform mixing would allow a lot more
sound
 > possibilities, but maybe that's an outdated idea like you suggest?
 >
 >
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 > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
 > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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