[sdiy] Ways for innovation
David Moylan
dave at westphila.net
Fri Jan 22 20:54:22 CET 2016
I'm very curious about how Arturia implemented this. I haven't seen a
demo that shows multiple sources mixed to a common destination. Anyone
know if that's possible? If it's truly a matrix mixer than I have to
think this is done digitally. I mean, they can't possibly have 256 VCAs
in there (can they?). Or maybe it's fixed mixing of sources per column
via switches into a summing node and only a master VCA for the summed
column. Anyone know more?
On 01/22/2016 11:35 AM, Pete Hartman wrote:
> A lot if innovation has been channelled into modules rather than full
> synths.
>
> Since I saw the arturia matrix I've been thinking on how I'd do that as
> a module. I think it might be doable, people's skepticism notwithstanding.
>
> Probably only 8x8 given the constraints of Euro, but I do think so....
>
> On Jan 22, 2016 10:45 AM, "Rutger Vlek" <rutgervlek at gmail.com
> <mailto:rutgervlek at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Wow, thanks for all the shared thoughts.
>
> Indeed, I'm not looking for a commercial answer to my questions. The
> answer is always... market size, design costs, etc. Musically I
> don't give a shit about those prices, but I feel it has been too
> long since a really innovative musical instrument has been made. And
> I'm wondering if we could find new ways to create one, a way to
> bypass the problem of the small market, etc. I'm thinking about some
> well-guided integration of great things people have developed here,
> and provide a hardware framework for them to further develop things.
>
> Rutger
>
>
>
> On 22 jan 2016, at 19:30, <spivkurl at wearerecords.com
> <mailto:spivkurl at wearerecords.com>> wrote:
>
>>
>> I realize that they are low cost synths. This is getting totally
>> away from the point though.
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Ways for innovation
>> From: Simon Brouwer <simon.o at brousant.nl
>> <mailto:simon.o at brousant.nl>>
>> Date: Fri, January 22, 2016 12:14 pm
>> To: synth-diy DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> <mailto:synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>>, Rutger Vlek
>> <rutgervlek at gmail.com <mailto:rutgervlek at gmail.com>>,
>> spivkurl at wearerecords.com <mailto:spivkurl at wearerecords.com>
>>
>> Well there is another important difference... these
>> instruments can be had for a fraction of the cost.
>> The most expensive of those instruments is avalable for less
>> than 400 euro. It does not seem realistic to pay so little,
>> and then expect them to last even 10 years, especially with
>> regular use.
>> Best regards
>> Simon
>>> Op 22 januari 2016 om 17:12 schreef spivkurl at wearerecords.com
>>> <mailto:spivkurl at wearerecords.com>:
>>>
>>> You are correct on this point, however there is one important
>>> difference... The instruments of today seem to be built to
>>> fail, just like much of the other items being manufactured.
>>> The craftsmanship and quality which went into the Minimoog
>>> has very little comparison with modern electronic
>>> instruments. I would love to see, forty years from now, how
>>> many Volca's, Microbrutes, and microkorgs (as examples) are
>>> still functional. I know my microkorg, which was purchased
>>> new around 2002, is pretty much reduced to a module now. The
>>> keybed began to fail within a couple years of regular use.
>>> Also, in the time of the Minimoog, there were very few
>>> options for entry level electronic instruments. I wasn't
>>> really speaking of an instrument which costs $1795 as being a
>>> toy though.
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Ways for innovation
>>> From: Simon Brouwer <simon.o at brousant.nl
>>> <mailto:simon.o at brousant.nl>>
>>> Date: Fri, January 22, 2016 9:55 am
>>> To: synth-diy DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> <mailto:synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>>, Rutger Vlek
>>> <rutgervlek at gmail.com <mailto:rutgervlek at gmail.com>>,
>>> spivkurl at wearerecords.com <mailto:spivkurl at wearerecords.com>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> But you have to consider the low cost of those "toy"
>>> instruments...
>>> I found mention of the original price tag of a Minimoog,
>>> in 1975: "$1795 CDN (which would be roughly equivalent to
>>> US dollars in those days)."
>>> According to
>>> http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1795&year1=1975&year2=2015
>>> that amount, corrected for inflation, would amount to
>>> almost 8000$.
>>> Even for the original 1795$ you can still buy pretty
>>> serious musical instruments, let alone for 8000$.
>>> Best regards
>>>> Op 22 januari 2016 om 16:27 schreef
>>>> spivkurl at wearerecords.com
>>>> <mailto:spivkurl at wearerecords.com>:
>>>>
>>>> My feelings on this are definitely related to the
>>>> mobile, single serve, throw away culture which has taken
>>>> over. There a far more people creating music (with
>>>> varying degrees of success) on their phones and laptops,
>>>> than there are people using real hands on instruments
>>>> these days. No matter how often I try to explain to
>>>> people that a piece of software cannot recreate a
>>>> performance on a real instrument, I always have a bunch
>>>> of people snapping at me... they express their unfounded
>>>> claims about how a digital waveform is that same or
>>>> "higher resolution" (uh I hate that) than an analog
>>>> waveform... they talk about the challenges of recording
>>>> a real instrument... they talk about the cost. For me,
>>>> it all seems like bad priorities, both for the musicians
>>>> and the companies selling things for making music. Being
>>>> a hobbyist and being a serious musician are generally
>>>> two different things (money making completely aside). A
>>>> huge amount of people want to skip from being a hobbyist
>>>> to being a famous "producer" (I hate that too), and they
>>>> don't seem to know the first thing about the process to
>>>> get from point A to point B, nor are they willing to
>>>> make investments of time, practise, and money. These
>>>> things will have to change for the whole idea of
>>>> electronic music/instruments to change. I can see
>>>> glimpses of it from time to time, for example the
>>>> resurgence and diversification of synth modules
>>>> available. Many electronic instruments made recently
>>>> seem barely better than toys, and sometimes worse (in
>>>> the case of vintage toys). If you can't even bother to
>>>> put a line out on your synthesizer, then maybe you
>>>> should not to be making synthesizers... am I right?
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> Subject: [sdiy] Ways for innovation
>>>> From: Rutger Vlek <rutgervlek at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:rutgervlek at gmail.com>>
>>>> Date: Fri, January 22, 2016 8:32 am
>>>> To: synth-diy DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>> <mailto:synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>
>>>> I've been reflecting on business and innovation in
>>>> the music branch a lot lately, and also discussing
>>>> with friends and I thought it might be nice to see
>>>> how people respond here.
>>>>
>>>> The thoughts were basically coming from an evening
>>>> of joy with my Nord Modular G2, which I think is one
>>>> of the most ground braking synths in recent years.
>>>> With ground braking I mean... musically. Recently
>>>> synths have become more affordable and more
>>>> portable, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm
>>>> talking about really new sounds, new ways of musical
>>>> expression, a next step for the synthesizer as a
>>>> musical instrument. However, the Nord Modular G2
>>>> sold rather badly, and production was stopped
>>>> prematurely if my sources are correct. Recently,
>>>> prices on the second hand market have been going up
>>>> again, so in time the innovation is appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> This leads me to believe that the market for an
>>>> truly innovative product is very small, until it has
>>>> really been adopted as the new standard (MiniMoog
>>>> anyone). This also means, financially, there's very
>>>> little motivation for companies to innovate. So I
>>>> was thinking, what about crowd-sourcing innovation
>>>> or making a platform that supports this? In a way,
>>>> this is already happening with all the open-source
>>>> projects and knowledge sharing on fora like
>>>> muffwiggler. But I feel a hardware platform is
>>>> lacking for these innovations to reach the less
>>>> scientific of us who just like to "play"!
>>>>
>>>> One of my personal pains is the lack of alternative
>>>> to MIDI. Why, in this modern era, is there still no
>>>> high-resolution version of MIDI standardized?
>>>>
>>>> The other is: why is there so little hardware that
>>>> helps integrating the hard work of the many DSP
>>>> hobbyist making great code. Where is that hybrid
>>>> synth with an open-sourced FX engine?
>>>>
>>>> Why does my 150 dollar phone have a better screen
>>>> than my 3000 dollar synth?
>>>>
>>>> And my last personal pain: why is hardware life span
>>>> so short on present commercial products? If I have a
>>>> synth with a great keyboard with aftertouch (which
>>>> is removed from more and more keyboards as a
>>>> cost-saving measure) and a lovely set of
>>>> controllers, why throw the hole thing, while the
>>>> only part that needs an upgrade is the CPU board +
>>>> DAC to support the latest audio quality and
>>>> CPU-hogging new algorithms?
>>>>
>>>> I like to be realistic about things financially, but
>>>> this is my musicians heart speaking.
>>>>
>>>> I'd be interested to hear your thoughts!
>>>>
>>>> Rutger
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>
>
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