[sdiy] Ways for innovation

Fri Jan 22 20:35:39 CET 2016

A lot if innovation has been channelled into modules rather than full
synths.

Since I saw the arturia matrix I've been thinking on how I'd do that as a
module.  I think it might be doable, people's skepticism notwithstanding.

Probably only 8x8 given the constraints of Euro, but I do think so....
On Jan 22, 2016 10:45 AM, "Rutger Vlek" <rutgervlek at gmail.com> wrote:

> Wow, thanks for all the shared thoughts.
>
> Indeed, I'm not looking for a commercial answer to my questions. The
> answer is always... market size, design costs, etc. Musically I don't give
> a shit about those prices, but I feel it has been too long since a really
> innovative musical instrument has been made. And I'm wondering if we could
> find new ways to create one, a way to bypass the problem of the small
> market, etc. I'm thinking about some well-guided integration of great
> things people have developed here, and provide a hardware framework for
> them to further develop things.
>
> Rutger
>
>
>
> On 22 jan 2016, at 19:30, <spivkurl at wearerecords.com> wrote:
>
>
> I realize that they are low cost synths. This is getting totally away from
> the point though.
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Ways for innovation
> From: Simon Brouwer <simon.o at brousant.nl>
> Date: Fri, January 22, 2016 12:14 pm
> To: synth-diy DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>, Rutger Vlek
> <rutgervlek at gmail.com>, spivkurl at wearerecords.com
>
> Well there is another important difference... these instruments can be had
> for a fraction of the cost.
>
> The most expensive of those instruments is avalable for less than 400
> euro. It does not seem realistic to pay so little, and then expect them to
> last even 10 years, especially with regular use.
>
> Best regards
> Simon
>
>
> Op 22 januari 2016 om 17:12 schreef spivkurl at wearerecords.com:
>
> You are correct on this point, however there is one important
> difference... The instruments of today seem to be built to fail, just like
> much of the other items being manufactured. The craftsmanship and quality
> which went into the Minimoog has very little comparison with modern
> electronic instruments. I would love to see, forty years from now, how many
> Volca's, Microbrutes, and microkorgs (as examples) are still functional. I
> know my microkorg, which was purchased new around 2002, is pretty much
> reduced to a module now. The keybed began to fail within a couple years of
> regular use. Also, in the time of the Minimoog, there were very few options
> for entry level electronic instruments. I wasn't really speaking of an
> instrument which costs $1795 as being a toy though.
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Ways for innovation
> From: Simon Brouwer <simon.o at brousant.nl>
> Date: Fri, January 22, 2016 9:55 am
> To: synth-diy DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>, Rutger Vlek
> <rutgervlek at gmail.com>, spivkurl at wearerecords.com
>
> Hi,
>
> But you have to consider the low cost of those "toy" instruments...
>
> I found mention of the original price tag of a Minimoog, in 1975: "$1795
> CDN (which would be roughly equivalent to US dollars in those days)."
> According to
> http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1795&year1=1975&year2=2015
> that amount, corrected for inflation, would amount to almost 8000$.
>
> Even for the original 1795$ you can still buy pretty serious musical
> instruments, let alone for 8000$.
>
> Best regards
>
>
> Op 22 januari 2016 om 16:27 schreef spivkurl at wearerecords.com:
>
> My feelings on this are definitely related to the mobile, single serve,
> throw away culture which has taken over. There a far more people creating
> music (with varying degrees of success) on their phones and laptops, than
> there are people using real hands on instruments these days. No matter how
> often I try to explain to people that a piece of software cannot recreate a
> performance on a real instrument, I always have a bunch of people snapping
> at me... they express their unfounded claims about how a digital waveform
> is that same or "higher resolution" (uh I hate that) than an analog
> waveform... they talk about the challenges of recording a real
> instrument... they talk about the cost. For me, it all seems like bad
> priorities, both for the musicians and the companies selling things for
> making music. Being a hobbyist and being a serious musician are generally
> two different things (money making completely aside). A huge amount of
> people want to skip from being a hobbyist to being a famous "producer" (I
> hate that too), and they don't seem to know the first thing about the
> process to get from point A to point B, nor are they willing to make
> investments of time, practise, and money. These things will have to change
> for the whole idea of electronic music/instruments to change. I can see
> glimpses of it from time to time, for example the resurgence and
> diversification of synth modules available. Many electronic instruments
> made recently seem barely better than toys, and sometimes worse (in the
> case of vintage toys). If you can't even bother to put a line out on your
> synthesizer, then maybe you should not to be making synthesizers... am I
> right?
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [sdiy] Ways for innovation
> From: Rutger Vlek <rutgervlek at gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, January 22, 2016 8:32 am
> To: synth-diy DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I've been reflecting on business and innovation in the music branch a lot
> lately, and also discussing with friends and I thought it might be nice to
> see how people respond here.
>
> The thoughts were basically coming from an evening of joy with my Nord
> Modular G2, which I think is one of the most ground braking synths in
> recent years. With ground braking I mean... musically. Recently synths have
> become more affordable and more portable, but that's not what I'm talking
> about. I'm talking about really new sounds, new ways of musical expression,
> a next step for the synthesizer as a musical instrument. However, the Nord
> Modular G2 sold rather badly, and production was stopped prematurely if my
> sources are correct. Recently, prices on the second hand market have been
> going up again, so in time the innovation is appreciated.
>
> This leads me to believe that the market for an truly innovative product
> is very small, until it has really been adopted as the new standard
> (MiniMoog anyone). This also means, financially, there's very little
> motivation for companies to innovate. So I was thinking, what about
> crowd-sourcing innovation or making a platform that supports this? In a
> way, this is already happening with all the open-source projects and
> knowledge sharing on fora like muffwiggler. But I feel a hardware platform
> is lacking for these innovations to reach the less scientific of us who
> just like to "play"!
>
> One of my personal pains is the lack of alternative to MIDI. Why, in this
> modern era, is there still no high-resolution version of MIDI standardized?
>
> The other is: why is there so little hardware that helps integrating the
> hard work of the many DSP hobbyist making great code. Where is that hybrid
> synth with an open-sourced FX engine?
>
> Why does my 150 dollar phone have a better screen than my 3000 dollar
> synth?
>
> And my last personal pain: why is hardware life span so short on present
> commercial products? If I have a synth with a great keyboard with
> aftertouch (which is removed from more and more keyboards as a cost-saving
> measure) and a lovely set of controllers, why throw the hole thing, while
> the only part that needs an upgrade is the CPU board + DAC to support the
> latest audio quality and CPU-hogging new algorithms?
>
> I like to be realistic about things financially, but this is my musicians
> heart speaking.
>
> I'd be interested to hear your thoughts!
>
> Rutger
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