[sdiy] PCB/Schematic software

Thu Sep 1 07:43:20 CEST 2011

Hi Mike,

Lots of people swear by KiCad. I sort of did your opposite, though. I gave
KiCad a couple of frustrating hours and moved on to commercial stuff. I
showed it to a friend, and he's liking it so far. He had an old copy of
Eagle and didn't want to update it.

What never ceases to amaze me is we try to do the same basic task, but we
can each find different tools much more to our own liking and way of
thinking/working.

I've read comments from some tearing Eagle up one side and down the other. I
can't personally see using anything else now.

Kind of like everyone's own taste in VC filter structures :)

David

David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Engineering, Inc.

Office: 801 733 5458
Cell: 801 842 5451

www.CFandE.com
dingebre at CFandE.com
dingebre at 3dphysics.net

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Mike Beauchamp [mailto:mikebeauchamp at gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:25 PM
>>> To: David Ingebretsen
>>> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] PCB/Schematic software
>>> 
>>> Hi David,
>>> I've recently become a KiCad user, and I've laid out a few fairly
>>> large boards and had them manufactured. So I can vouch that the whole
>>> program works start to finish, and the Linux compatibility is a big
>>> plus for someone that might want to get away from Windows down the
>>> road.
>>> 
>>> The manual is good, the layout and workflow are logical although the
>>> UI is a bit dated (very hard to see icons on high resolution monitors,
>>> etc.).
>>> 
>>> On the other hand, I've never given Eagle much more than a brief, but
>>> frustrating few hours. But there's a lot of people I respect doing
>>> amazing things with Eagle, and it does seem to be a bit of a defacto
>>> for the DIY crowd.
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 10:45 PM, David Ingebretsen
>>> <dingebre at 3dphysics.net> wrote:
>>> > I'll second the vote for Eagle. It's an expensive investment, but well
>>> worth
>>> > it. I tried KiCad, AutoDEX, Target, and some of the manufacturer
specific
>>> > ones, but when I finally bit the bullet and bought Eagle for the
Steiner
>>> > Synthasystem project, it was excellent. Easy to add/edit components, I
>>> find
>>> > the interface pretty intuitive and straightforward, most board houses
take
>>> > the files directly or Eagle outputs Gerber files easily using a script
>>> that
>>> > comes with it.
>>> >
>>> > It has great support, too.
>>> >
>>> > My only complaint is it doesn't interface well to any Spice
simulators. It
>>> > kind of interfaces with B2Spice, but I think it's easier to just
redraw
>>> the
>>> > schematic.
>>> >
>>> > Free is always good, but it's my experience (with some notable
exceptions
>>> > like gnu emacs, gnu compilers, LaTeX, OpenOffice) free often means
quirks,
>>> > and a lot of DIY debugging/programming which takes the fun out of
using
>>> the
>>> > software to do the really fun stuff I want to do.
>>> >
>>> > David
>>> >
>>> > David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
>>> > Collision Forensics & Engineering, Inc.
>>> >
>>> > Office: 801 733 5458
>>> > Cell: 801 842 5451
>>> >
>>> > www.CFandE.com
>>> > dingebre at CFandE.com
>>> > dingebre at 3dphysics.net
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>>> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
>>> >>>> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Tristan
>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 5:04 PM
>>> >>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] PCB/Schematic software
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> About a year ago I looked into this issue and in the end also went
with
>>> >>>> Eagle Professional Layout +
>>> >>>> Schematic. I wanted similar functionality to the old Protel
Schematic +
>>> > PCB
>>> >>>> I had used in the past and the
>>> >>>> cross platform Win/Mac/Linux compatibility of Eagle was a bonus.
Two
>>> > other
>>> >>>> important considerations were
>>> >>>> that Eagle is widely accepted by board houses and the company has
been
>>> > in
>>> >>>> business a long time with a
>>> >>>> solid support presence.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> In use I have found Eagle to be reliable and I have not struck any
>>> major
>>> >>>> bugs or instability. On the
>>> >>>> negative side, I found it has a fair learning curve (but I guess
most
>>> > CAD
>>> >>>> tools do!) and some operations
>>> >>>> are not very intuitive. The supplied libraries are also a bit messy
and
>>> >>>> inconsistent.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> /Tristan
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 1st, 2011 at 6:42 AM, Matthew Smith
<matt at smiffytech.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> > Quoth Harry Bissell at 01/09/11 04:29...
>>> >>>> > ...
>>> >>>> > > What does anyone like these days ?
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > When this was discussed last - which I think is when Neil drew up
>>> that
>>> >>>> > list - I did a quick re-evaluation. My first criterion was that
the
>>> >>>> > package had to run on Linux, as I'm an all-Linux shop, here.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > I had been using Eagle for quite some time and had upgraded from
the
>>> >>>> > freeware to the not-for-profit paid version, in order to get a
bit
>>> > more
>>> >>>> > board space to work with. But that license was strictly
>>> > non-commercial.
>>> >>>> > I needed something where there would be no license restrictions
>>> >>>> > regarding selling stuff created with the package.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > My third key requirement was that everything would go through
>>> > schematic
>>> >>>> > capture - there is no way in the world that I would consider
laying
>>> > out
>>> >>>> > a boar directly.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > At the time, I was looking for Spice integration, but I still
haven't
>>> >>>> > gotten round to using that - I'd far rather build something and
test
>>> > it
>>> >>>> > than sit staring at a computer screen (which I do all day anyway)
>>> >>>> > fiddling with simulations.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > My shortlist came down to Eagle Pro, Kicad and GeDA/PCB.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > After a quick look at Kicad, I decided that it simply wasn't for
me -
>>> >>>> > didn't suit the way I work/think.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Next off the block was GeDA/PCB. Whilst I wasn't impressed by the
>>> >>>> > integration of the tools, I realised the sheer power of it and
knew I
>>> >>>> > could script a lot of tasks. The two real issues it presented
were 1)
>>> >>>> > learning curve and 2) no reliable way to turn my rather large
Eagle
>>> >>>> > components library into the GeDA/PCB format.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > I thought about this for a few months and finally worked out that
>>> >>>> > forking out a grand for Eagle Pro would actually be cheaper, when
>>> >>>> > considered in a commercial context, than having to learn a
totally
>>> new
>>> >>>> > package and then convert a lot of previous work over to the new
>>> > format.
>>> >>>> >   As I'm not *that* happy with parting with my money - even when
the
>>> >>>> > "me" is "my business," I got onto my distributor - Element14 -
and,
>>> >>>> > after some negotiation, secured what I thought was a pretty good
>>> > discount.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > So, now I am running Eagle Pro (schematic capture and board
layout
>>> > only
>>> >>>> > - no auto-router) and am happy with that. The effort of changing
was
>>> >>>> > simply a case of adding a new license file - no learning, no
>>> > conversions.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > As regards Spice integration, I believe there may be a ULP (User
>>> >>>> > Language Programme) or two that will export netlists in a form
that
>>> > can
>>> >>>> > be read by/imported into Spice software. But I haven't tried to
do
>>> it.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Cheers
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > M
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > --
>>> >>>> > Matthew Smith
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Business: http://www.smiffytech.com
>>> >>>> > Blog:     http://www.smiffysplace.com
>>> >>>> > Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
>>> >>>> > Flickr:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/msmiffy
>>> >>>> > Twitter:  http://twitter.com/smiffy
>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> [mike]