[sdiy] Eagle, Proteus, DIPTrace, DesignSpark & Kicad
Tom Wiltshire
tom at electricdruid.net
Mon Feb 21 11:54:24 CET 2011
I've been using DipTrace for a few years, and I've been very pleased with it.
I started off using the free version, then moved up to one of the cheaper full licences. There's a good range of those, so you don't have to spend all the money at once. And it's cheaper than you mention - the full top-end licence is only €585/$800.
I tried various free things before I found DipTrace, and I've posted here before that I'm a fan. I found Eagle hideously clunky. Designed by someone back in the DOS era, and then dragged into the future without really changing anything, apart from perhaps kludging more features into a system which wasn't built to handle them. Several of the other (expensive) packages have the same flavour for me. Diptrace is modern software from the ground up, and feels far better than other things I tried. Which isn't to say it doesn't have a few quirks. They're only on V2.1, so it isn't perfect.
Recently they also released a Mac version. I mostly use a Mac but have a PC around for all my electronics stuff (MPLAB/Diptrace). I haven't tried it, but it offers at least the possibility of doing circuit design on my laptop.
It doesn't do simulation or 3D modelling, but then, neither do I, so I don't miss it.
Incidentally, the schematics are pretty nice, I'd say. Example:
http://www.electricdruid.net/VCResonator.jpg
HTH,
Tom
On 20 Feb 2011, at 16:17, Robin Whittle wrote:
> Thanks for this discussion of PCB and schematic programs.
>
> I don't have a particular interest in simulation or 3D modelling. I
> would like a PCB program which can place components at arbitrary
> angles. This is not essential for current projects, but if I am going
> to make the major investment in learning a program, I would be happier
> knowing I could place components at any angle.
>
> Ideally the program would run on Linux, but if it is stuck on Windows,
> that's OK for me.
>
> I will need to design large boards, so will be paying $1k to $2k for a
> commercial program if I don't choose free (beer) DesignSpark or Free
> (open-source) Kicad.
>
> I am fussy about the look of schematics. I prefer minimally complex
> graphics in schematics. The old (1990 or so) Protel DOS Schematic had
> bit-mapped schematic symbols and text which I was perfectly happy with.
>
> I found these pages useful:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_EDA_software
> http://www.milton.arachsys.com/nj71/index.php?menu=2&submenu=7
>
> My interpretation of the general knowledge and discussion so far:
>
> Eagle http://www.cadsoft.de
>
> Probably does everything I could want to do. Is very
> widely used. From all indications, it has a difficult
> user interface.
>
> Huge set of user-contributed libraries.
>
> Runs on Linux.
>
>
> Proteus http://www.labcenter.com
>
> I don't think anyone has reported on it directly.
> Clearly a substantial pair of programs - separate
> for schematic and PCB. History goes way back to
> the late 1980s, I think.
>
> Windows only.
>
>
> DIPTrace http://www.diptrace.com
>
> Hasn't been mentioned yet. Established 2004:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DipTrace
>
> Windows only.
>
>
> DesignSpark http://www.designspark.com/pcb
>
> Free of cost, closed source, Windows only, from
> RS Components. Written by Number One Systems and so
> is presumably very similar to Easy-PC, which has a
> long history.
>
> Windows only.
>
>
> Kicad http://www.lis.inpg.fr/realise_au_lis/kicad/
>
> FOSS - Windows, Linux and MAC. Some people gave
> it a good rap. Its a huge project making schematic,
> PCB, DRC and autorouter functions to the point where
> they are seriously useful.
>
>
> I downloaded demos. here are some thoughts:
>
> Arbitrary rotation of components (not just 90 degrees)?
>
> Eagle Yes
> Proteus Yes
> DIPTrace Yes
> DesignSpark Yes
> Kicad Yes (Double click, user orientation.)
>
>
>
> Output of data for automatic assembly? I have no experience in this,
> but the Proteus people:
>
> http://www.labcenter.com/products/pcb_overview.cfm
>
> state that ODB++ format is the best. Their Level 2, 2+ and 3 versions
> do this, which are $999 and above.
>
> Eagle } I assume the commercial programs do it well.
> Proteus }
> DIPTrace }
> DesignSpark }
>
> Kicad I don't know what to look for, so I can't tell
> if it does it well. Kicad's documentation seems
> to be minimal and not necessarily up-to-date, though
> the eeschema.pdf file is January 2011. I couldn't
> find this recent English version on the Net - it is
> in the /doc/help/en/ directory.
>
>
> Schematic aesthetics (entirely my subjective opinions) and export
> capabilities.
>
> A vital characteristic of a schematic is that it can look good in
> monochrome even with poor print quality and with things packed
> reasonably closely together. The more components which can be
> fitted on an A4 or A3 sheet, without it looking messy, the better.
> Fine-line Helvetian fonts are maybe not as good as small but chunky
> dot matrix fonts. These are very preliminary opinions, so don't
> take them too seriously.
>
> Eagle I don't like the look - for instance hexapod.sch. Here
> is a page with some examples:
>
> http://junzo.sakura.ne.jp/dsp101/dsp101.htm
>
> Schematic export to PNG or clipboard, in any resolution
> with colour or monochrome. Examples use box resistors
> which I do not use - I like zig-zag resistors, which
> I am sure I could use instead.
>
> Proteus I really liked the aesthetics of the PICDEM LCD 2
> schematic. Nice zig-zag resistors and all the other
> components looked uncluttered, with fonts and all
> scaled well. They claim:
>
> http://www.labcenter.com/products/schematic.cfm
>
> to provide extensive control over schematics via
> style sheets. So a bunch of already created
> schematics could have their display style changed
> with a single style sheet file.
>
> The export facility is formidable: Bitmap, Enhanced
> Metafile (?), DXF (worked nicely as pure lines when
> read into QCad, where individual lines of text could
> be moved), EPS (I was able to open it in Adobe
> Illustrator and change the line widths), PDF and
> HPGL (worked OK imported into Corel Draw 9, which
> can save it as .EPS or .AI for Illustrator).
>
> DIPTrace I liked the look of Schematic_1.dch better than
> the Eagle look. Although it still uses Helvetian or
> the like, it seems more compact, with less extraneous
> stuff. Examples had zig-zag resistors, but the angles
> of the end zigs were different from those in the
> middle.
>
> Schematic export to . . . DXF? It wasn't immediately
> obvious to me how to export it to a graphics format.
>
> DesignSpark I *really* disliked the schematic I saw for "Analogue
> Circuit.sh". Box resistors, all the components really
> big and unattractive with very small text in a font
> which was not particularly readable. Settings >
> Default did not seem to change the text in the
> components or the larger text which where labels.
>
> Schematic export? None - I could only print it.
>
> Kicad I did not like the look of pic_program.sch on screen,
> but it looked better when printed in monochrome.
>
> Schematic export: Postscript .PS rendered what I
> saw on screen perfectly (as tested with an old Acrobat
> Distiller 4.0 to turn it into a PDF). SVG (I didn't
> have a program to read it). DXF (looked good in QCad).
> HPGL seemed to work OK too.
>
>
> Since schematic quality is so important to me, , I think this rules
> out Design Spark, which I won't consider any further.
>
>
> PCB display and user interface
>
> Eagle Has a bad reputation for the overall interface. It
> looks like all the menu options have keyboard
> equivalents. I think this is vital.
>
> There were only 16 fixed colours to choose from: View >
> Hide/display layers. This seems very limited. There
> were 16 textures too. Surely there's a way of adding
> colours, but it wasn't obvious to me how.
>
> Proteus Has configurable keyboard mapping. (System > set
> keyboard mapping.) Function keys could be assigned to
> any of the hundreds of functions. This configuration
> could be exported or imported. This looks really
> good, since I would set up my function keys to do what
> I want. I didn't see any such thing in Eagle, but
> that doesn't mean it can't be done. Eagle has some
> kind of internal programming language, so I guess it
> is very flexible.
>
> System > Set Display options enables Open GL graphics
> which my video card supports, and this enables variable
> transparency for: Current, Background, Solder resist
> and Solder paste layers. My quickie impression of this
> is that this is really helpful.
>
> Layer colour selection involves arbitrary colours. The
> internal plotter drive enables arbitrary colours too -
> I guess this would affect graphics export, at least
> for HPGL.
>
> The same sorts of Graphics Export options exist as for
> the Schematic program. Layers can be turned on and
> off. I couldn't get the EPS export to be readable in
> Photoshop 6.0 or Illustrator 8, but I didn't try very
> hard. PDF export seemed to work, but I didn't try
> fine-tuning colours.
>
> DIPTrace There are keystroke shortcuts, but I couldn't quickly
> see how to change them or assign function keys.
>
> Layers can have arbitrary colours.
>
> Kicad There is a Preferences > Hotkeys menu which enables
> any key to be mapped to a list of a few dozen
> functions, with export and import.
>
> I couldn't easily find how to change layer colours.
>
>
> I think all these programs have an autorouter. The only way to find
> out how suitable it is is to try it on a real complex project - and
> by then months of work have gone into learning the program, setting up
> the libraries, creating the schematic and laying out most of the PCB.
>
> My impressions are:
>
> Eagle I guess it can do everything, but it is apparently awkward
> - and I couldn't see how to alter its colours. I do not
> like its schematics - so this pretty much rules it out.
>
> Proteus Transparency! Seems to be very deep and well thought out.
> Schematics looked good to me. Excellent graphic export and
> they claim, for the more expensive versions, very good
> support for component placement file output.
>
> There appears to be no PDF user manual. However, there is
> extensive, well illustrated tutorial and other information
> in the Help section. The tutorial section prints out as
> 51 pages. I would typically print out the entire manual
> and annotate the hardcopy.
>
> DIPTrace Might be OK, but there was a lack of graphic export in the
> Schematic program.
>
> Kicad I didn't like the schematics much, but it is a very good
> deal, since it is freely available open-source and
> multi-OS.
>
> Overall, my impression is that the most expensive one - Proteus - is
> the most flexible and suited to my needs. Since the time and effort
> involved in seriously learning any one of these programs, and creating
> libraries and even a single project, is so steep, I aim inclined to
> spend the money on the most impressive program, and hope that I don't
> run into anything which is a serious limitation or a source of torment
> in the years to come.
>
> Proteus provides updates for 6 months. There is some kind of contract
> and other prices for keeping a program updated for longer than this,
> or upgrading to a later major version. So its not for free, or
> inexpensive. However, the cost of investing in a program which
> seriously annoyed or limited me would be much higher.
>
> - Robin http://www.firstpr.com.au/rwi/dfish/
>
>
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