[sdiy] Fwd: Frontpanel Express line detail

[David Ingebretsen]

I'm probably not that picky, but I've used FPE for all the panels I've done.
I always use the 0.2mm tool.

Here is a close up of an HPGL imported graphic with lettering all with the
0.2mm tool and a 0.01 inch scale.

www.xmission.com/~dingebre/panel_closeup.html


~~ -----Original Message-----
~~ From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
~~ bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of steven thomas
~~ Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 1:26 PM
~~ To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
~~ Subject: [sdiy] Fwd: Frontpanel Express line detail
~~ 
~~ Hmm ..not being able to make lines thinner than 0.4mm doesnt sound
~~ exactly great from such a premium company. Any decent engraving
~~ company use tapered engraving cutters and  can do lines much finer
~~ than that (I have done so  many times myself on my own cnc engraving
~~ machine).
~~ 
~~ Obviously FPE are not using standard v-shaped cutters and floating
~~ 'nosecone' engraving to control width of engraved characters. Probably
~~ the engraving spindle  on their giant routers dont allow for this ..or
~~ its too time consuming. Therefore they are likely using fixed spindles
~~ that dont float over the metal surface like dedicated engraving
~~ machines use.  So,  in order to avoid varying width in the engraved
~~ lines, which can easily happen because the metal itself isnt perfectly
~~ flat ..(even slight variations in its thickness can cause visible
~~ variation with v shaped cutters on a fixed spindle.. which is why
~~ floating engraving spindles were  invented ) they probably use
~~ straight cutting tools.even in engraving.
~~ 
~~ I am also surpirsed that they quote  cutter bit +machine tolerance as
~~ high as +0.2mm..thats rather large ..I assume the 0.2mm is from the
~~ position error over large distances.
~~ Most cnc machines ..even huge ones.. normally use ballscrews which are
~~ very accurate (to microns over small linear distances).  I would  only
~~ expect a 0.2mm error in machine position to occur only when the
~~ spindle head traverses large linear distances on very large
~~ panels...not in engraving relatively small text over small linear
~~ distances!
~~ 
~~ Are you sure the quoted tool size isnt radius and not diammeter?  A
~~ single stroke font or line with 0.2mm diammeter parallel cutter should
~~ produce  a line very close to 0.2mm width not 0.4mm!
~~ 
~~ I have never had a panel made by FPE/Schaeffer..so I dont know if this
~~ is a common problem.
~~ 
~~ cheers
~~ steve
~~ 
~~ Digitana Electronics
~~ www.synthi.co.uk
~~ 
~~ On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 3:38 PM, James R. Coplin <james at ticalun.net>
~~ wrote:
~~ > What I heard back from FPE express is that the tool is not tapered but
a
~~ > trapezoidal shaped tool with a max cutting diameter of .2mm.  However,
~~ > tolerances for the machine and the bit work out -0mm to +0.2mm on top
of
~~ the
~~ > bit width.  Based in the panel I have from them, I would say assume
~~ 0.4mm is
~~ > going to be the line size.  This makes finer detail fairly difficult to
~~ > achieve.  On my Modcan format panels that I make it is difficult to get
~~ the
~~ > text large enough to be legible at .4mm stroke widths on the dials and
~~ minor
~~ > labels like around switches etc.  Just FYI if you are planning on
making
~~ > panels with FPE.
~~ >
~~ > James R. Coplin
~~ >
~~ >> -----Original Message-----
~~ >> From: port23.co.uk at googlemail.com [mailto:port23.co.uk at googlemail.com]
~~ >> On Behalf Of julian fincham
~~ >> Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 3:49 AM
~~ >> To: James R. Coplin
~~ >> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
~~ >> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Frontpanel Express line detail
~~ >>
~~ >> FPD simply states "Engraving tool - 0.2mm" but its not at all clear
~~ >> what this actually meens -
~~ >>
~~ >> Does it meen that the line should be 0.2mm, or does it meen that the
~~ >> tool is 0.2mm?
~~ >>
~~ >> And then it gets more complicated - if the tool is 0.2mm, what does
~~ >> this actually meen?
~~ >>
~~ >> Cutter geometry is not as simple as simply stating a width - the
~~ >> truncation (the width across the flat on the tip of the cutter) can be
~~ >> one widh, but even this wont tell you the line width, as the angle of
~~ >> the truncation can change, the clearence angle can change, not to
~~ >> mention the cutting angle its self.
~~ >>
~~ >> And, once all this is done, with a V cuter, if you plunge the tool
~~ >> deeper, the line is going to get thicker regardless!
~~ >>
~~ >> In short, i have no idea what FPD meens by 0.2mm, but you are possibly
~~ >> better to use any numbers as a guide rather than some absolute.
~~ >>
~~ >>
~~ >>
~~ >>
~~ >>
~~ >> At this point, of course, i have to plug my own work -
~~ >>
~~ >> http://www.thebeast.co.uk/cnc/
~~ >>
~~ >> ; )
~~ >>
~~ >> Incidently i grind the cutters i use myself, and use different geomery
~~ >> for different jobs/effects/finishes/metal types, to get the best
~~ >> visual effect.  I find i get better end results this way, than simply
~~ >> 'painting by numbers'
~~ >>
~~ >> Indeed this -
~~ >>
~~ >> http://www.thebeast.co.uk/cnc/DSCF4271.jpg
~~ >>
~~ >> is one of my favourite examples.
~~ >>
~~ >> Julian
~~ >>
~~ >>
~~ >>
~~ >>
~~ >>
~~ >>
~~ >> On 14 September 2010 16:06, James R. Coplin <james at ticalun.net> wrote:
~~ >> > I noticed in my last panel that despite my printed proofs and having
~~ >> > everything stroked correctly the lines in my panel are decidedly
~~ >> larger than
~~ >> > what appeared on my proofs (even those printed from their design
~~ >> software).
~~ >> > I set the project and graphics up to use the .2mm engraving tool
~~ >> throughout
~~ >> > and all my text etc. I converted to curves, removed the fill, and
~~ >> stroked
~~ >> > the curves to .2mm with joins and endcaps set to round to match the
~~ >> tool.
~~ >> > Theoretically, what I was seeing in my proofs and on the screen
~~ >> should have
~~ >> > been what Frontpanel Express delivered.  Instead, it appears to me
~~ >> that the
~~ >> > lines are more like .3mm-.4mm in width.  Anyone else have this
~~ >> > issue/observation?  My panel was black with no infill.  Does the
tool
~~ >> have a
~~ >> > taper that with infill the text might have been sharper?  Just
~~ >> wondering how
~~ >> > to adjest before I send off my next panel as it is an expensive
~~ >> learning
~~ >> > curve.
~~ >> >
~~ >> > James R. Coplin
~~ >> >
~~ >> > _______________________________________________
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~~ >> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
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~~ >> >
~~ >
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