[sdiy] brainwaves to CV :O)

[Scott Gravenhorst]

Amos <controlvoltage at gmail.com> wrote:
>This same point is what I was alluding to when I said that results
>would depend on how invasive the sensor technology is.  Fully-wetwired
>interfaces could give you much higher-quality signals... At a price.

Yes.  When I worked at DEC, I had many university customers.  One of them had a an
experiment running that was quite interesting.  

**** WARNING - CAT PEOPLE - this will be gross ****

They had a sedated cat strapped down with a surgical hole in it's head where they were
attaching electrodes small enough to connect to a single neuron.  They had a small movie
screen set up in the cat's view and would use a machine to move a dot of white light.  They
were interested in the cat's brain activity regarding direction of motion as seen by the
eye.  While I was there, they demonstrated by moving the light at different angles and
speeds.  The light could be moved and shut off for repositioning, so they could stimulate
with the a spot that moved in a specific direction at different speeds.  At only one angle
did the neuron fire, and it fired consistently when they used the correct angle and
direction for stimulus.  The speed of the movement did not seem to effect the firing.  

But as you point out, this is quite invasive.

--  Perhaps a mathematical approach similar to tomography done with EEG data?



>On 9/9/10, Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net> wrote:
>> "Paul Burns" <paul at fitvideo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>I would challenge Scott's statement in that signals leave the human brain
>>>all the time to induce muscle stimulation, inducing limbic movement and
>>>speech just for starters...
>>>
>>>We shall beg to differ.
>>>
>>>regards
>>>
>>>Paul
>>
>> Perhaps my expression "leave the brain" isn't accurate as is - sure signals
>> leave the
>> brain, but they do so conducted by electochemical nervous connections, not
>> by
>> through-the-air propogation or even bone-tissue-skin conduction which can be
>> sensed by
>> electronic equipment.
>>
>> My point is that the connections through nerves to activate muscles and
>> receive sensory
>> signals were rewarded by evolution and their functions advanced due to the
>> rewards.  No
>> such reward has been provided by nature regarding signals that can be sensed
>> by elecronic
>> connections attached to the exterior of the skull.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Scott Gravenhorst
>>>Sent: 09 September 2010 22:48
>>>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>Subject: Re: [sdiy] brainwaves to CV :O)
>>>
>>>The animal brain did not evolve in an evironment in which the animal
>>>benefits from
>>>signals that leave the brain for any reason.  Nor were there nor are there
>>>any challenges
>>>provided by nature which encourage or ellicit such benefits.  However,
>>>animals did and do
>>>benefit from the physical electrochemical connections to sensory organs and
>>>muscles.
>>>
>>>Human beings which are also animals have evolved in the same or similar way
>>>such that we
>>>developed efficient connections from the brain to sensory organs and
>>>muscles.  The use of
>>>the sensory organs and muscles provided advantages for (at least) feeding
>>>and breeding,
>>>thus we prospered.
>>>
>>>The fact that some electrical signals can be detected by sensitive
>>>electrical equipment
>>>is, in my opinion, merely a side effect, a curiousity.  The human brain
>>>certainly seems
>>>capable of some amount of multitasking, such as walking while talking or
>>>playing a
>>>musical instrument in which the limbs (and other parts) are doing something
>>>perhaps
>>>related, but different.
>>>
>>>The connections for muscle control come from specific parts of the brain
>>>that evolved to
>>>handle those specific functions effectively.  It may be more like
>>>multiprocessing than
>>>multitasking.  Because of the lack of encouragement/reward from evolution
>>>for external
>>>signal use (what in nature responds to such signals?) and because evolution
>>>did produce
>>>advanced connections for limbs and sense, I would have to agree with Barry
>>>that the idea
>>>of a mentally conducted piano concert will never be as good as one done
>>> with
>>>hands and
>>>other parts, mainly because we have real evolutionary advantages in using
>>>our hands to
>>>manipulate our physical world and we have no such advantages produced
>>>because of
>>>electrical activity that eminates from the skull.
>>>
>>>I think that the technology to even approach something like playing a fugue
>>>from mental
>>>electrical activity sensed by a machine are a very long way off.  Consider
>>>also that the
>>>brain is a three dimensional object and connecting to it's exterior surface
>>>would at best
>>>give only a blurred and distorted summing view of the multitude of
>>>individual signals
>>>generated within.  Separation of specific signals seems required for such a
>>>task and at
>>>present, the technology to do so doesn't exist.  (yes, I saw that "House"
>>>episode and I
>>>thought the same way Barry did: No - it doesn't work like that)
>>>
>>>I would not discourage experimentation in this regard, but I personally
>>> hold
>>>out little
>>>hope for real success.
>>>
>>>-- ScottG
>>>
>>>________________________________________________________________________
>>>-- Scott Gravenhorst
>>>-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
>>>-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
>>>-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
>>>-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Synth-diy mailing list
>>>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Synth-diy mailing list
>>>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>
>> -- ScottG
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> -- Scott Gravenhorst
>> -- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
>> -- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
>> -- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
>> -- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
>-- 
>Sent from my mobile device
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.