[sdiy] Who Needs a Degree?

Fri May 28 21:35:17 CEST 2010

Could not agree more ... I left school in the UK to programme computers,
computers that my school did not have in the early eighties (my friend and I
build our own, every resistor, cap etc, hand soldered)... my friends at that
time were coming out of Uni and working behind bars to earn a crust at that
time for up to two years before they acquired a proper job... not that I am
denigrating bar staff as that is truly a worthy life ...

I speak and read Japanese at a technical level (translating for Korg ,
Roland , Yamaha) ...all self taught ... I was refused entry into Sheffield
Uni in 1986 as I was not classed as an ab initio student, although I could
already read newspapers, and I did not have a qualification at "A" level
standard in a foreign language , say French ...

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Scott
Sent: 28 May 2010 15:50
To: Alexander Chayka; karl dalen
Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Who Needs a Degree?

I just want to add, I was one of those kids who was a bit too wild for
college when I was 18.  I got a job at a computer company instead, and w/in
a year I had the word "engineer" on my business card. It was undeserved at
the time.  (I was doing mid-sized corporation networking and some basic
database development) But, from there I learned and learned and left that
company and started my own.  
Now I'm quite successful (im 33) and most of my friends who stuck through
college are still bouncing around from job to job and still very far in
debt.(I have 0 debt other than my home)
Then besides my computer career, people  here and various other places on
the internet have taught me some basic EE skills, and I repair and build
instruments and amps and all that is great fun!  I've met people who ARE
EE's who have just worked the same job their entire lives, and they seem to
have forgotten everything EE related, other than maybe the one task they
perform at their office each day. They can't hold a conversation about even
the most basic amp or synth circuits. 
So, obviously, I'm a big fan of skipping university and making ones own way
in the world.
I'll also add that there's a lot to be said for going through your wild
stage when you're young!  The people who didn't get wild till around the end
of college still have issues to this day, where the kids who were wild in
highschool usually had to get themselves straight and are quite successful
by now.

For the people I know at least, It's like the ones who got a degree feel
like they are done learning.. now they just want to work and collect their
check, and so are stagnant.  Where me and my friends who made our own ways,
we will always keep learning and keep looking for something new.

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Alexander Chayka
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 9:20 AM
To: karl dalen
Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Who Needs a Degree?

I think the problem is that people think the university teaches jobs
skills, and it doesn't, or shouldn't. It really should be the 'alma
mater' and a place for renaissance. They seem to cram all the possible
basic stuff you'll ever might need to know without accounting for all
the different kinds of learners out there, and most importantly
without making it fun or interesting. x10 for (U.S.) public school
education. But there are profs. who bring the cool stuff in and you
can see them sweating and breathing it, just most kids are in there to
get a job later on and they could care less.

I agree you don't need a degree and experience is a different type and
equally important education, but don't bash the university, bash the
apathetic human.

On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:59 AM, karl dalen <dalenkarl at yahoo.se> wrote:
>
> Who Needs a Degree?
>
> In my experience some engineers are plodders. They just don't get it.
Sure, they can crank some C or design a bit of logic but their creations are
leaden, devoid of style, crude, slow and just not elegant.
>
> Then there are the superstars, those few who establish a mind-meld with
the code or electronics. Have you ever worked with one? When the system
doesn't work, mysterious bugs baffle all of our efforts, up comes the guru
who sniffs, licks his finger and touches a node, and immediately discovers
the problem. We feel like idiots; he struts off in glory.
>
> Who are these guys, anyway? An astonishing number of `em have "unusual"
academic credentials. Take my friend Don. He went off to college at age 18,
for the first time leaving his West Virginia home behind. A scholarship
program lined his pockets with cash, enough to pay for tuition, room, and
board for a full year. Cash - not a safer University credit of some sort.
>
> A semester later he was out, expelled for non-payment of all fees and
total academic failure, with an Animal House GPA of exactly 0.0. The cash
turned into parties, the parties interfered with attending class. His one
chance at a sheepskin collapsed, doomed by the teenage immaturity that all
of us simply must muddle through.
>
> Today he's a successful engineer. He managed to apprentice himself to a
startup, and to parley that job into others where his skills showed through,
and where enlightened bosses valued his design flair despite the handicap of
no degree.
>
> Another acquaintance breezed through MIT on a full scholarship. Graduating
with a feeling that his prestigious scholarship made him oh-so-very special
he started working in aerospace. To his shock and horror the company put him
on the production line for six months, riveting airplanes together. This
outfit put all new engineers in production to teach them the difference
between theory and practicality. He came out of it with a new appreciation
for what works, and for the problems associated with manufacturing.
>
> What an enlightened way to introduce new graduates to the harsh realities
of the physical world!
>
> Experience is a critical part of the engineering education, one that's
pretty much impossible to impart in the environment of a university. You
really don't know much about programming till you've completely hosed a
10,000 line project, and you know little about hardware till you've
designed, built, and somehow troubleshot a complex board. We're still much
like the blacksmith of old, who started his career as an apprentice, and who
ends it working with apprentices, training them over the truth of a hot
fire. Book learning is very important, but in the end we're paid for what we
can do.
>
> In my career I've worked with lots of engineers, most with sheepskins, but
many without. Both groups have had winners and losers. The non-degreed
folks, though, generally come up a very different path, earning their
"engineering" title only after years as a technician. This career path has a
tremendous amount of value, as it's tempered in the forge of more hands-on
experience than most of their BSEE-laden bosses.
>
> Technicians are masters of making things. They are expert solderers -
something far too few engineers ever master. A good tech can burn a PAL,
assemble a board, and use a milling machine. The best - those bound for an
engineering career - are wonderfully adept troubleshooters, masters of the
scope. Since technicians spend their lives daily working intimately with
circuits, some develop an uncanny understanding of electronic behavior.
>
> In college we learn the theory at the expense of practical things. Yet I
recently surveyed several graduate engineers and found none could integrate
a simple function. None remembered much about the transfer function of a
transistor. What happened to all of that hard-learned theory?
>
> Over the years I've hired many engineers with and without their bachelors,
and have had some wonderful experiences with very smart, very hard working
people who became engineers by the force of their will. Oddly, some of the
best firmware folks I've worked with have degrees, but in English! Perhaps
clear expression of ideas is universal, whether the language is English or
C.
>
> We're in a very young field, where a bit of the anarchy of the wild west
still reigns. More so than in other professions we're judged on our ability
and our performance. If you can crank working designs out at warp speed,
then who cares what your scholastic record shows?
>
>
>
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