[sdiy] SDIY-OT: Acrimony on the list

[cheater cheater]

Dave,
so what's your constructive criticism? Those 'few posts' are such a
nebulous term that I don't know what to begin with it, even though I
would like to. I don't think this applies to the latest; the fact that
the involved people blushed speaks for itself. I don't really keep a
record of this sort of thing, so can't come up with much. I understand
you see a problem of some sort, but I don't know what it is.

If that's what you mean, when I feel personally involved by someone
against my will then I will not hesitate to quickly clear up any
differences. I'm not a doormat for anyone. To answer your question: I
don't think I would have to say some things if I were in the room with
someone, because some other things would not have been said in the
first place. In that case I don't attribute conducting the breach to
myself. The question you have asked is a classical question with
telephone/internet/written mail conversations, and I've seen it
answered a few times already.

Either way, I don't see the reason to post this to the list,
especially if you have my direct email address. You'll find that I'm
open to discussion if you try to email me. Public persecution is not a
constructive process for me. Not because I think I'm a bad guy of some
sort and am afraid what bad stuff might come out, I'm not 'afraid' of
that, but group psychology makes this a destructive process in every
instance. Just the fact that you make me the single evil on this list
that is the source of 'all acrimony' is an illustration of how
unbalanced statements, that are hurtful, can easily show up in such a
situation and accumulate.

If you have any thoughts, email me off-list, I don't see the point of
discussing this here, and see it as negative. I'm open to discussion
via my inbox, where we can exchange at least 100 emails.

Best regards,
D.

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 06:01, Dave Manley <dlmanley at sonic.net> wrote:
> My apologies to the list in advance.
>
> cheater cheater wrote:
>>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 07:29, Dave Manley <dlmanley at sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm probably missing the big picture here because I haven't been paying
>>> attention since these long-winded discussions often devolve into a lesson
>>> in
>>> logic and pointless point-counterpoint style argument, or perhaps the
>>> thread
>>> has veered off topic as they are want to do [...]
>>>
>>
>> I hope the conversation doesn't devolve to this.
>
> That exchange was just a day ago. Apparently there are other devolutions* I
> should have mentioned, given the recent wave terrain thread (and please,
> please, please don't post a line-by-line defense of that mess).
>
> Damian, I have to say in all honesty your presence is the catalyst for most
> of the acrimony on this list and others we have in common. SDIY was almost
> completely free of this sort of acrimony before you arrived back in June
> 2008. This isn't an attack. I'm not demeaning you. I really don't think this
> is opinion (you only irritated me personally once, long ago, in which case I
> swallowed my pride, and didn't respond to spare the list the noise). Instead
> of an attack, think of it as an intervention. I'm just stating what many
> others are unwilling to in public. I've just reviewed many of the prolific
> and often verbose posts you've made. Some are on-topic and helpful. Some are
> pointless, perhaps an attempt at humor, and no problem. Some are complete
> nonsense - showing a complete lack of understanding, or a willingness to do
> some basic studying before posting, ie "I've got to post something just for
> the sake of posting, even though I know nothing about the subject!". Some
> raise interesting questions, that lead to interesting discussions. But in a
> few of your posts you present unneeded attitude. These few are the problem.
> Like Samppa, it is just a few that are really a problem. In them, you lack
> tact, you lack humility, and there doesn't seem to be any sense of
> self-reflection. I had a colleague once who called this "open-loop
> behavior". No negative feedback. I encourage you to exercise a bit of
> introspection before posting - "Is it really necessary to respond in this
> way?" - or am I just posting more and more off-topic material, that will
> only further serve to alienate people from me? If you were in a room with
> the person, would you respond the same way? You are obviously bright, have a
> deep knowledge in certain areas, and can make a contribution, but your
> mail-list graces are simply put deficient.
>
> Sometimes one has to ask the question: is there a reason why people treat me
> with hostility?
>
> There's an acronym used on Wikipedia: DBAD.
>
> And yes, I thought long and hard before posting this. And no, I'm not trying
> to be a dick. I found the following tid-bit in one of *your* posts from 2008
> that seems applicable:
>
> "With that said, I appreciate what you say and put great value into it and
> agree that my words may have been annoying. I am sorry for this and do admit
> that this was out of line [...] That said, this should not be mixed with
> interpersonal relationships and I hope in the future to better myself in my
> attempts to express that I do not want to touch the person, but the idea, in
> my divagations."
>
> And now for something completely different a quote from a famous 20th
> century philosopher: "People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get
> along? Can we get along? [...] It’s just not right. It’s not right. It’s
> not, it’s not going to change anything.....Please, we can get along here. We
> all can get along. I mean, we’re all stuck here for a while. Let’s try to
> work it out. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to work
> it out."
>
> I gotta go, my dog is annoyed that I'm ignoring him, and there's almost
> nothing worse than a whiny dog looking for attention.  :-)
>
> -Dave (*Q: Are we not men? A: No, we are Devo!) Manley
>
>
>
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