[sdiy] dave smith *instruments*

[Ryan Powers]

On top of the annoying rotary encoders, the MIDI implementation which  
is based on the newer prophet and the obnoxious NPRN protocol is a  
total pain in the ass. (Speaking of the Mopho specifically). I would  
easily pay 1000 or so for a monosynth with similar capabilities, a  
physical keyboard and dedicated pots.

-Ryan


On Feb 2, 2010, at 8:57 AM, Benjamin Budts wrote:

>
> I agree with what you're say... I've never had a synth that had  
> rotary encoders. And as a matter of fact I play gigs with my sytnhs  
> and use em in studios...
>
> Within minutes testing a synth with rotary encoders I found those  
> rotary encoders total garbage (its ok to go through a patch list,  
> but that that's a paramter having nothing to do with an instrument  
> like you mention).
>
> Being on stage with a synth, with smoke lots of noise and light is a  
> very different situation then back home in the studio with some nice  
> vangelis music in the background, a well lit room etc... ;-)
>
> Like you say you know you're instrument, if I turn that pot x  
> degrees I know it will make the sound I expect it to make...
>
> But about that parallax mode :p, I never heard about it, care to  
> enlighten me ?
>
> cheers,
> B.
>
> cheater cheater wrote:
>> The reason why people requested the pot edition is because encoders
>> are completely crap for anyone who does music as more than a hobby.
>> Anywhere you see musicians they are trying to learn their instrument
>> and how it works and how best to operate it, and get better at it by
>> developing muscle memory which is a way of operating your instruments
>> through subconscious reflexes. This is not different with electronic
>> instruments and hardware that processes sound.
>>
>> Encoders completely disable positional muscle memory (i.e. the  
>> sound i
>> want was halfway down the string / the knob was on 1 o'clock) as well
>> as movement muscle memory (i.e. i have to turn it right by 90 degrees
>> to get my sound). This can be compared to the frets on a guitar
>> changing places as you're dragging your fingers down the strings.
>>
>> It is especially annoying when the encoders don't do what they're
>> supposed to because they glitch out: either because the gray code was
>> completely corrupted and the encoder suddenly jumps to a random  
>> value,
>> or because we skipped 'just one value' like Antti mentions. This
>> skipping is quite aggravating and feels as if the encoder was greased
>> up and you can't turn it properly, especially if it happens in
>> sequence, i.e. multiple times during one movement of the knob.
>>
>> I truly cannot come up with an idea of where in a musical studio
>> encoders are a good idea. Maybe alpha dials to move through menus
>> quickly. But for editing values?
>>
>> On a musical instrument you want to be able to change the sound to
>> what you have in your head quickly, and you get there by remembering
>> how the knobs were set up and how they were positioned. This is the
>> whole function of the user interface of a synth. We are of course not
>> talking here about people who are on a  'sound journey' and are
>> 'discovering sound spaces' i.e. have no idea what a knob does and  
>> turn
>> it and listen to what it changes - those people use the confusion of
>> an encoder in their own way, but I assure they will be equally
>> confused with potentiometers.
>>
>> It's even worse on a performance instrument where the knobs are your
>> performance tools. In that case you might want to, for example,
>> rhythmically move a knob and the crappiness of encoders completely
>> disables this.
>>
>> So let's look at consoles: useful or not? Some people like the icon
>> and stuff like that. Maybe it's done well, I can't argue without
>> having ever used it. But I know one thing for sure - if you're in a
>> recording studio, you want to get to places quick, and you do this  
>> by,
>> again, using muscle memory for what you are doing, when setting up
>> reverb send levels, when setting up the EQ for the vocal and rhythm
>> guitar, and so on. The icon has presets so it does away with the
>> aggravation of using encoders for that, but I am certain that using
>> silly bouncing encoders that skip over values to set up from  
>> scratch a
>> whole 24 channel board of knobs one by one is a bad experience.
>> Similar applies to outboard gear which is used in the same way.
>>
>> You might want to argue 'oh, but you need to be able to recall  
>> patches
>> and stuff and you cannot do that with normal potentiometers' to which
>> I can only tell you to learn a bit more about programming and hint  
>> you
>> on a term called 'parallax mode'.
>>
>>
>> -----
>>
>>
>>
>>> Reminds me of a German computer mag in the 1980s, where they  
>>> applied all
>>> kinds of endurance tests to joysticks like lassoing, bathing them  
>>> in coke,
>>> fall tests from 1m and 2m heights, etc. Failing these tests  
>>> resulted in
>>> deductions on usability grades as they didn't withstand "typical"  
>>> accidents.
>>>
>>
>> I remember similar things! I think no laptop withstood the 'tile  
>> floor
>> fall from a desk', but carpeted floors definitely scored higher. I
>> can't remember if I was reading a PC mag or a home improvement  
>> catalog
>> :D
>>
>> D.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 08:37, David G. Dixon <dixon at interchange.ubc.ca 
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>> Sorry I forgot to mention that there are also optical encoders from
>>>> grayhill and other companies.
>>>> They cost about twice compared to the mechanical version but may  
>>>> work
>>>> longer...
>>>>
>>> That crappy old Farfisa organ I tore apart for its keyboards had  
>>> an optical
>>> encoder volume pedal.  Maybe someone can replace all the knobs on  
>>> their Dave
>>> Smith synth with volume pedals from 30-year-old Farfisa organs!
>>>
>>> (Go analog!)
>>>
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>>
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