[sdiy] Re: [AH] BAD Trader: Peter Grenader

[harrybissell at wowway.com]

AH overflow ???

Ah... how I miss the (flame) wars....

Sounds like everyone needs a "Steaming Mug of STFU" as
we used to say on AH...   :^P

<lol>

burn 'em if you got 'em...

H^) harry




On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:42:49 +0000, cheater cheater wrote
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Dennis Verschoor 
> <modular at gmail.com> wrote:
> > It really surprises me that when Peter gets what he asks for someone comes
> > up for him.
> 
> Dennis, not defending Peter. But if we want to do this tar and
> feather, let's do it in a way that leaves no way out for the bad guy.
> 
> >> then next time someone might stop liking, say,
> >> Rozzbox (who I'd just had an interesting conversation over email with)
> >> or MOTM or Wiard, and will start posting bullshit here and everyone
> >> will believe that.
> >
> > you're not defending him, but you imply that we are posting "bullshit"?
> 
> No friend, I said 'someone' specifically to disconnect this from
> anyone here. Please don't read into this.
> 
> >
> > How does posting a receipt, showing that you bought something, for instance,
> > show on any level that the actual claims are true - that Peter HASN'T done
> > something?
> 
> It shows that you're relevant to the situation and actually have a
> voice in the conversation.
> I've seen too many threads on too many mailing lists where people
> started teaming up and mobbing. Then various unbased claims were made
> ('that guy is an X') and then the focus of the situation, which right
> now seems to be to prove that Plan B has bad business practices. So
> let's just close the band train doors for the casual flamers before
> they show up.
> 
> >
> > The argument - that we should provide proof of something that someone else
> > has failed to do, because someone else at some point might post dishonestly,
> > is just ridiculous.
> >
> 
> Or, it is just treating everyone equally and expecting good
> performance when you're making a very big claim that can really mess
> up someone's life. I think in this case Peter G is to blame; the
> important point is that skipping this rational check can become a
> habit, and a habit that allows casting people out easier is not good.
> 
> >
> >
> >> So I think it's better by principle to show some
> >> sort of proof that establishes you can actually speak out about the
> >> issue at hand.
> >
> > Sorry - but, in my case, for instance, I don't feel like I need to try to
> > find the person who sold it to me (who is also a long time member, but
> > hasn't been around here much of late) and get him to verify that he handed
> > it to me. I believe that most people here trust that I'm not making up the
> > entire story.
> >
> 
> Cool, and so do I. But out of courtesy, could we have a little bit of
> proof? Just any minimal amount?
> 
> > I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this here - where someone
> > is essentially calling a bunch of long time members liars.
> 
> I've never done this. I'm just trying to clench the community's fist
> before it punches Plan B, because posting stories without any proof 
> is only a halfway effort. If someone comes with this thread to Plan 
> B and asks him about it, he can go and say 'those people are crazy,
>  i mean who posts on the internet anyways? they haven't shown any 
> proof this has happened anyways. they're just making it up' - let's 
> stop this situation before it happens. As you've seen Plan B uses 
> mind tricks to manipulate the situation his way. With such proof out 
> in the open and public, he won't be able to do that in this case.
> 
> Ross:
> > In so much as the internet can be a big time waster, I do not
> > believe that the people are BSing in this thread just to hear themselves
> > talk, nor do I think this is some sort of conspiracy against this guy.
> 
> Neither do I. But let's not leave the guy with any chance to dismiss
> the points made here.
> 
> Vincent:
> 
> > Basic math suggests that someone who had email when he was eleven...would
be how old??
> Between 12 and 53 years old?
> 
> Mark,
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Mark Pulver <mark at midiwall.com> wrote:
> >
> > Okay KIDS - this PeterG thing has gone on for REAL long time, and the AH
> > rules are very clear about bad trader/seller posts.
> 
> Sorry, I did not realize that going into this sort of conversation is
> governed by an AH rule. I'll make note of this, thank you for
> correcting me.
> 
> > Mr. CheaterD... please refer to the archives, and also refer to the
> > character of those people that you're _accusing_ of stringing someone up
> > without "proof". If you need any "proof" about these claims, go back through
> > said archives where you'll see at PeterG coming out online to defend himself
> > the last time this happened.
> 
> I'm not saying anyone is stringing up PlanB. I think he's got what is
> coming for him. I'm just asking for more solid proof so he can dangle
> quicker. Let's not lie to ourselves, there's no chance of retribution.
> 
> I think Peter Forrest's post expresses what I think exactly, I agree
> with all points in his post.
> 
> As far as PlanB goes, I have a small commentary that I will not 
> follow up on in this thread: The analog synth crowd is a very small 
> market. People don't know what they should expect; quite often the 
> customers will show very good will by letting some things slip just 
> in order to support the company which is striving to survive. Peter 
> from Plan B abuses this and uses mind tricks, coertion and abuse in 
> order to arrive at his ends. What I think might be happening, and 
> that would explain the long shipping times and his always asking to 
> send back the items, is that he's got multiple people he's sending 
> the same item. Say person A buys an item, then returns it for fixing 
> in march 2009. Peter can sell it to person B, who will return it by 
> May 2009. Person A and B will be promised two working items in 
> return while only one, broken, item exists. This is an illegal 
> business practice called short-selling, and is well known by many 
> people. As for the bullshit explanations from Peter that he 'can't 
> go 3 blocks', well... I think that's not outrageous anymore, it's 
> past that point. At this instance the person talking to him should 
> immediately see him for what he is, a dismissive cynic who wants to 
> get his money, his gear, and then he tells the person affected to 
> buzz off; in the world of business if you don't have the money and 
> don't have the merchandise you've basically got a lost case on your 
> hands. Especially since Peter G knows in the end the user won't 
> bother following up on this with legal action.
> 
> The manufacture, fix and response times obviously show Peter is not
> interested in doing any business. Any serious business gives you
> updates on your order/project at least every month, and hopefully
> every week. My business is currently doing a service worth 5 000 euro
> for free for a company (because it helps us as well), but the people
> still expect us to report every week, and they are right to do so, 
> and we do report every week. Simply because it would not be professional
> of us not to keep constant communication.
> 
> Supposedly PlanB has shipped some good hardware here and there as
> well, in big amounts actually. This performance, and the shouting, 
> and not-picking-up, would only suggest that we're dealing with a bipolar
> person. People who take their emotions into business shouldn't be
> doing business.
> 
> Thanks
> D.
> 
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 3:59 PM, BrightBoy <jdec at mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Here are the rules that a mail-order company operating
> > in the United States must follow when taking orders:
> >
> > http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus02.shtm
> >
> > If Plan B/EAR isn't following these rules, file a complaint
> > with the Federal Trade Commission.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >>From: Mark Pulver <mark at midiwall.com>
> >>Sent: Mar 12, 2009 11:50 AM
> >>To: AH <analogue at hyperreal.org>
> >>Subject: Re: [AH] BAD Trader: Peter Grenader
> >>
> >>
> >>No shit.
> >>
> >>Okay KIDS - this PeterG thing has gone on for REAL long time, and the AH
> >>rules are very clear about bad trader/seller posts.
> >>
> >>There's a history of issues with PeterG, the archives will show it.
> >>
> >>Mr. CheaterD... please refer to the archives, and also refer to the
> >>character of those people that you're _accusing_ of stringing someone up
> >>without "proof". If you need any "proof" about these claims, go back
> >>through said archives where you'll see at PeterG coming out online to
> >>defend himself the last time this happened.
> >>
> >>KenE had a point in this, public outcry is a good way to flesh someone
> >>out... Peter doesn't seem to want to say much this time around.
> >>
> >>
> >>Also, your suggestion about posting other communication is MOST CERTAINLY
> >>NOT OKAY to do here. AH is not here to create a battle zone for
> >>trader/tradee situations like this. Plus, it's not exactly legal to post
> >>private communication in a public forum.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Mark - really really trying to deputy this mess.
> >>-----
> >>Ancient Eyeball Recipe (06:28 AM 3/12/2009) wrote:
> >> >
> >> >you're not defending him, but you imply that we are posting "bullshit"?
> >> >
> >>
> >>-----
> >>steve at polyfather.com (05:17 AM 3/12/2009) wrote:
> >> >Hi 'D'
> >> >
> >> >Well you are a pretty anonymous character yourself, you go first.
> >>
> >>
> >>====================
> >>cheater cheater (03:02 AM 3/12/2009) wrote:
> >> >> Hi guys,
> >> >> I'm really sorry to hear about your problems and don't wish to make
> >> >> your claims seem insignificant or untrue, but they're some pretty big
> >> >> claims; for this thread to be just, can you supply some proof that you
> >> >> are actual Plan B customers? There is a lot of internet drama out
> >> >> there and a small manufacturer can be brought down with forged emails
> >> >> like this - so can we have perhaps something like photos of you with
> >> >> the units, photos receipts, stuff like that? This would add you guys
> >> >> credibility in the eyes of an onlooker like me.
> >> >>
> >> >> On another note, if you have any emails from Plan B that you'd like to
> >> >> post, remember that it's OK to do so. Communication from a company is
> >> >> pretty much public and you can use it in court openly and can even
> >> >> post it to a print newspaper as far as anything is concerned...
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers
> >> >> D
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva