[sdiy] Roland Filters / IR3R05

Dan Snazelle subjectivity at hotmail.com
Thu Apr 30 18:37:46 CEST 2009 


thats what i was afraid of.


i was talking to the guy who sells  replacement chips for the Juno 106 (he makes them out of Surface mount ota's i guess) and he said that Roland actually buys them from him for their service centers! which i guess means it is too much trouble for them to do it themselves.

i wonder if the info on what is inside th IR3r05 chip is just lost forever, buried in some file cabinet somewhere! so sad the amount of SYNTH history that is going to be lost :(

anyway thanks for your help





--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

 http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page

and soundtrack/design work:

NEW: check out Dan's sound design from the 1998 award winning film SAFARI by catherine chalmers

http://www.catherinechalmers.com/videos.cfm




> From: gsn10 at hotmail.com
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Roland Filters / IR3R05
> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:22:58 -0400
>
>
> Internally it's probably still OTA-based, though I might guess from the vague descriptions I've read that it's two state variable filters in series. If they can stick more stuff on the chip (including a resonance OTA and VCA that weren't in the IR3109), it makes the synth cheaper at the expense of versatility. And since they're not selling the chips for individual use, they don't have to tell anyone how it works or even what inputs it's expecting. It looks functionally similar to the 80017, but if you want anything more specific than that you're probably SOL.
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: subjectivity at hotmail.com
>> To: kingravine at comcast.net; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:33:17 +0000
>> CC:
>> Subject: [sdiy] Roland Filters / IR3R05
>>
>>
>> hey there
>>
>> well i now have a big stack of schematics and data piled all around me. (another new tangent to follow)
>>
>> the only roland filters which seem to still be a complete mystery as to what is inside of them are the
>> IR3R05 chips...with the IR3109 there is a lot of info out there and you can at least TRY to use regular ota's to simulate the structure.
>>
>> but the IR3R05...well there is nothing.
>>
>> these were used in the: JX-8P, JX-10, Alpha Juno 1, Alpha Juno 2, MKS-50, MKS-70, MKS-80 rev 5.
>>
>> now i have the jx8p schematic and they really gloss over what might be inside the chip and unlike the earlier chips, the resistor values are internal to the chip between the OTA's,etc.
>>
>> i cant find any diagrams or notes in the jx8p manual. now maybe a different roland manual gives the same sort of internal layout that the jupiter manual gives for the IR3109 but so far, no luck.
>>
>> SO i am wondering if anyone here has any insight into what is going on in this chip. first off, they say it has 2 separate filters inside of it.
>>
>> and it is odd that there are no resistors connected (except for the CV ins)...in other words the resistors that would have been between otas and in feedback positions are gone.
>>
>> which makes me REALLY curious about what is going on.
>>
>> so any info would be great. i wonder if roland would answer questions?
>>
>> thanks!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> check out various dan music at:
>>
>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>>
>> (updated monthly)
>>
>> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>>
>> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>>
>> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>>
>> AUDIO ARK:
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>>
>> and soundtrack/design work:
>>
>> NEW: check out Dan's sound design from the 1998 award winning film SAFARI by catherine chalmers
>>
>> http://www.catherinechalmers.com/videos.cfm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: KingRavine at comcast.net
>>> To: subjectivity at hotmail.com
>>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] help finding roland filter schematics?
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:29:47 -0400
>>>
>>> Oh, before I forget:
>>>
>>> These OTAs are running at a fairly low signal level. You'll need to add
>>> make-up gain at the end with a typical opamp to get "normal" synth levels.
>>>
>>> Have fun, and let the list know how it works out!
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Dan Snazelle"
>>> To:
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 3:29 PM
>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] help finding roland filter schematics?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ok great
>>>
>>> the main thing that threw me off was the +5 and whether or not to use
>>> inverting or non inverting
>>>
>>> from there i should be good!!
>>>
>>> and man...i can try this experiment out with really any roland filter i see
>>> that uses OTA;s
>>>
>>>
>>> really i would imagine all that will matter is the cap values and resistor
>>> values.
>>>
>>> thanks so much!!!!!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>> check out various dan music at:
>>>
>>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>>>
>>> (updated monthly)
>>>
>>> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>>>
>>> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>>>
>>> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>>>
>>> AUDIO ARK:
>>>
>>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>>>
>>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>>>
>>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>>>
>>> and soundtrack/design work:
>>>
>>> NEW: check out Dan's sound design from the 1998 award winning film SAFARI by
>>> catherine chalmers
>>>
>>> http://www.catherinechalmers.com/videos.cfm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>> From: KingRavine at comcast.net
>>>> To: subjectivity at hotmail.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] help finding roland filter schematics?
>>>> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:29:39 -0400
>>>>
>>>> The SH-101 is battery powered, so the supply rails are weird. There is no
>>>> "negative", so to translate to the modular environment:
>>>>
>>>> SH-101 V+ is your V+
>>>> SH-101 +5V is your ground
>>>> SH-101 ground is your V-
>>>>
>>>> I think they want to be non-inverting stages, so input through a series
>>>> resistor (not shown on diagram, start experimenting with 68K) into +
>>>> input,
>>>> with 560R to ground. The -input will have a 560R to ground as well.
>>>>
>>>> The 68K/560R voltage divider sets the input level to each OTA stage, and
>>>> may
>>>> have to be tweaked to avoid distortion.
>>>>
>>>> Looking at Paia Fatman, they use a 1K (R64) and 22K (R66) combination
>>>> between stages and a 1K (R59) and 100K (R57) combination at the input.
>>>> Fatman is a 2 stage 12dB using 13600s, and may be good to look at.
>>>>
>>>> It's not entirely the same design, but it should be good for resistor
>>>> values, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Dan Snazelle"
>>>> To:
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 1:56 PM
>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] help finding roland filter schematics?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> weird
>>>>
>>>> the sh-101 may have confused me a bit
>>>>
>>>> i have never seen a +5 volts connected to anything in a typical OTA
>>>> circuit....so i wonder why here?
>>>>
>>>> it may take me a bit to figure out how to replace this with OTA's ;)
>>>>
>>>> from the looks of the diagram it seems that the INPUT first starts at pin
>>>> 2?
>>>> or via a 68k at pin 4? (which is the out of the first OTA)
>>>>
>>>> one thing to consider when replacing with OTA 's would be to figure out
>>>> FIRST what pin of the OTA to use? - or +? and with the other pin would it
>>>> got to +5v or to ground
>>>>
>>>> with a 560 ohm resistor?
>>>>
>>>> a bit confusing to figure out.
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>> check out various dan music at:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>>>>
>>>> (updated monthly)
>>>>
>>>> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>>>>
>>>> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>>>>
>>>> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>>>>
>>>> AUDIO ARK:
>>>>
>>>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>>>>
>>>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>>>>
>>>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>>>>
>>>> and soundtrack/design work:
>>>>
>>>> NEW: check out Dan's sound design from the 1998 award winning film SAFARI
>>>> by
>>>> catherine chalmers
>>>>
>>>> http://www.catherinechalmers.com/videos.cfm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>> From: KingRavine at comcast.net
>>>>> To: subjectivity at hotmail.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] help finding roland filter schematics?
>>>>> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:31:35 -0400
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Dan,
>>>>>
>>>>> This is off-list since I'm sending attachments. I've included JP6 filter
>>>>> and my own schematic of the SH-101 filter that's much easier to read.
>>>>> They
>>>>> both use IR3109, but JP6 has switches to change the response to things
>>>>> other
>>>>> than LP.
>>>>>
>>>>> Note that the chip is 4 OTAs with buffers. Perhaps a pair of 13700 ICs
>>>>> will work?
>>>>>
>>>>> Enjoy! I've always considered cloning it with a different OTA to see how
>>>>> the sound changes. I wonder how much "magic" the 3109 imparts to the
>>>>> sound.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave Magnuson
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Dan Snazelle"
>>>>> To:
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 10:32 AM
>>>>> Subject: [sdiy] help finding roland filter schematics?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hey there
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in my quest to better understand OTA filters, i have been trying to find
>>>>>> some of the old roland OTA filter schematics
>>>>>> in readable scans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i found this CHART which lists which of the roland filters use regular
>>>>>> OTA's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://fa.utfs.org/diy/roland_filters/index.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> so i am looking for readable SCHEMATICS of the SH1, SH2, SH7, and maybe
>>>>>> sh09
>>>>>>
>>>>>> also...these are probrably good ones to look at in general for vco and
>>>>>> lfo
>>>>>> ideas,etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a few questions...does anyone know how much a BA662 compares to a
>>>>>> ca3080?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> also...in the later ROLAND OTA CHIPS are these basically just 4 otas on
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> chip? or is there something fancier going on? are these available as
>>>>>> schematics anywhere?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks SO MUCH!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>>> check out various dan music at:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (updated monthly)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AUDIO ARK:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and soundtrack/design work:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NEW: check out Dan's sound design from the 1998 award winning film
>>>>>> SAFARI
>>>>>> by catherine chalmers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.catherinechalmers.com/videos.cfm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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