[sdiy] Kawai K3 Waveform ROM's - Update

Thu Mar 15 15:29:59 CET 2007

Don't know why thy'd do this but it looks like the
red wave is the derivative of the green one. They might use this
to do adaptive filtering that allows for fast response on a large
change and better anti-alias on a slow moving wave. 
Note: the sine wave has almost noting on the red...

H^)

>
>
>
>---- Original Message ----
>From: plutonique9 at hotmail.com
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: RE: [sdiy] Kawai K3 Waveform ROM's - Update
>Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 07:39:11 +0000
>
>>I forgot to mention, for each of the graphs I've used the 512-byte
>samples 
>>that I de-interleaved from the ROM's for each waveform. The 512-byte
>sampes 
>>are stored on every second sample (address-line) in the ROMS (i.e
>Bit 0, Bit 
>>2, Bit 4 etc.).
>>
>>Ryan
>>
>>>I've done some more investigating with the ROM's. I guess that
>patend had 
>>>nothing to do with it after all.
>>>
>>>Seems ROM#10 (like ROM#9), has interleaved waveforms within
>1024-bytes per 
>>>waveform (512-byte, 256-byte, 128-byte etc.). In order to find a 
>>>relationship between the two ROM's, i overlayed screenshots of each
>pair 
>>>showing waveshape & FFT spectrum analysis. I covered this for six
>of the 
>>>K3's waveforms, (green = ROM#9, red = ROM#10);
>>>
>>>Wave 31 (sine) :: http://audiosyn.com/files/K3/Sine%2031.jpg
>>>Wave 30 (Saw):: http://audiosyn.com/files/K3/sawtooth%2030.jpg
>>>Wave 29 (Square) :: http://audiosyn.com/files/K3/square%2029.jpg
>>>Wave 28 :: http://audiosyn.com/files/K3/wave%2028.jpg
>>>Wave 27 :: http://audiosyn.com/files/K3/wave%2027.jpg
>>>Wave 25 :: http://audiosyn.com/files/K3/wave%2025.jpg
>>>
>>>What's the relationship between them? To me, the red wave's look
>like 
>>>(evaluating FFT) that they are hipass filtered versions of the
>green, but 
>>>they also seem to be out of phase or shifted? The K3/m uses a
>hardware 
>>>based HPF, so it's performing that function of the synth.....but
>they are 
>>>definetley realted.....i just can't put my finger on how
>(completley) & 
>>>why.
>>>
>>>any feedback is anticipated, i'm still stumped (but getting
>closer).
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Ryan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>, I'm guessing RN3QELI03Z is just a resistor ladder (simple DAC)
>for 
>>>>controlling VCF cuttoff of th 6 SSM filters (via the 4051B). The
>two 
>>>>oscillators (digital waves) have each a seperate DAC (TD62901P).
>>>>
>>>>To tell you the truth, I understand the analogue side of the K3
>much more 
>>>>than the digital..... :)
>>>>
>>>>What are you hoping to do on the digital side of the K3?
>>>>
>>>>Seeya
>>>>
>>>>Ryan
>>>>
>>>>P.S If someone is following along and needs the schematics, they
>can still 
>>>>be downloaded fro my site @ 
>>>>http://audiosyn.com/files/schematics/Kawai%20K3m%20Schematics.zip
>>>>>
>>>>>That patent is utterly uncomprihensible!
>>>>>
>>>>>However, great initiative :) I also love the K3 sound. I have
>some
>>>>>other questions about the schematics. In the PDF K3m04.pdf from
>your
>>>>>schematics pack (thanks man!) down in the lower left corner,
>there's a
>>>>>part named RN3QELI03Z. It's between I2 and I22. What does it do?
>>>>>
>>>>>I've been trying to figure out how the DCO frequency is
>controlled,
>>>>>but I'm not too experienced with reading schematics, and the K3
>seems
>>>>>quite complicated (it's all glue!). Are the wavetable indexes
>counted
>>>>>on "discrete" counter ICs somewhere?
>>>>>
>>>>>Am I right in thinking that the K3 really uses two separate
>DAC's, one
>>>>>for each oscillator?
>>>>>
>>>>>Keep up the great work, and good luck!
>>>>>/Johannes
>>>>>
>>>>>On 3/11/07, Plutoniq9 <plutonique9 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>*This didn't seem to post to sdiy when i posted to ah last nite.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I've been interested in creating a new waveform ROM set for the
>kawai 
>>>>>>K3/m
>>>>>>for quite a while now and have been making great progress the
>last few 
>>>>>>days.
>>>>>>   However, it uses a method of storing waveforms in a very odd
>fashion;
>>>>>>
>>>>>>- Uses 2 ROM's (#09 & #10) for waveforms, but uses them in
>>>>>>combination/parallel (not just to extend memory space).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>- ROM #09 is 8-bit Unsigned INT 32,768-bytes. Rom#10 is 8-bit
>Signed INT
>>>>>>32,768-bytes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>- ROM #09 is 32768-bytes x 8-bit. Each of the 31 waveforms
>occupies
>>>>>>1024-bytes of space. Within this 1024-byte space, 5 different
>octaves of 
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>waveform are "interleaved", higher octaves contain less sample
>data (i.e
>>>>>>512-bytes, 256-bytes, 128-bytes, 64-bytes, 32-bytes x 2). This
>is to 
>>>>>>avoid
>>>>>>aliasing I imagine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This much I have figured out. I wrote a small c++ program that
>has 
>>>>>>allowed
>>>>>>me to extract the "base" 512-byte wavefoms from ROM#09. Next
>step here 
>>>>>>will
>>>>>>be to go the other way, convert a 512-byte single-cycle waveform
>into 
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>K3's 1024-byte interleaved format.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>HOWEVER........
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The second ROM (#10) is still a mystery to me....... The only
>hunch I 
>>>>>>got is
>>>>>>that is may relate to this patent;
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://free.patentfetcher.com/GetPatentPDF.php?f=Pats/US/45/26/U
>S4526081.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But I'm not sure I understand it well enough. If anyone can
>offer some 
>>>>>>help,
>>>>>>it would be greatly appreciated! Ultimate goal is to create
>replacment 
>>>>>>Kawai
>>>>>>K3 wave ROM's containing "cream of the crop" single-cycle
>waveforms (i.e
>>>>>>wavestation, prophet VS and various "classic" analogue synth
>waveforms 
>>>>>>from
>>>>>>real machines etc.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>To help, i've created a zip file containing the sine waveforms
>(both
>>>>>>de-interleaved and interleaved) from ROM # 9, and the "mystery" 
>>>>>>1024-byte
>>>>>>sine from ROM # 10. I'll also include the .bin dumps of both
>waveform 
>>>>>>ROM's.
>>>>>>The big question is......
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What the fudge does ROM # 10 have to do with ROM # 09? Is it to
>extend
>>>>>>harmonics like in the patent # 4526081?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Zip file can be found at
>audiosyn.com/files/K3%20mystery%20waveform.zip
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Plutoniq9
>>>>
>>>>_________________________________________________________________
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>>>
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>>
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