SV: Re: SV: Re: SV: Re: [sdiy] Chip prices today and what about tomorrow?

[karl dalen]

--- Rainer Buchty <rainer at buchty.net> skrev:

> >The guy in india are not in india ,hes in sweden in the local office!
> >That is, he's in the chair nex to me holding my hand! ;-)
> 
> And he's living and working there for 10EUR/h? Sounds like modern 
> slavery to me...

Well, not far from it!

> We had that "Green Card" project here in Germany back during the dot com 
> bubble times which was meant to attract skilled foreign workers. Of 
> course, was sounded like a good salary in India or Pakistan turned out 
> to be not quite sufficient to live when having to live *here*.

Gues what they are saying here now? That the Dot com bubble newer happend!!
There was no bubble and that in conjunction with the recent sales of the
swedish kzaa dude to e-bay for , was it 23 billions! Over priced by far!

> So then you're not selling any product? Why let it be developed then?

I was just giving a it as an example to your points about if the dude
was located in India, the situation that anyone would pay them 10euro
are most likely! What i ment are that things like that can wreck a lot
in a small country.
 
> What about *your* customers?

I dont get that, what about them? If im the customer
then its my problem or non problem, if im the middleman 
and have customers i obviusly dont go to market unless
the contractors have done their jobs(talking small scale)
its a different situation if its in large scale!
 
> Not at all. Just about this specific business model.

OK i see!
Well, we dont know more then 10 euro idea as a business model!
 
> >A majority of companies outsource, small aswell as large!
> It always depends on *what* you outsource. If you replace one clueless 
> hotline by some other clueless hotline, fine. If you outsource "donkey 
> work" (like PCB manufacturing, assembly), fine.

Offcourse, but i dont underestimate chinese or 
indian engineers they are very well educated!
 
> But if I need a delicate piece of electronics (or whatever) be 
> *developed*, then "discount development! just 10EUR/h!" for me rings 
> warning bells rather than being a truly attractive (and serious) offer.

That might be a truth of the past but not anymore, things have changed,
short therm greed has in the past 10 years dictated the direction we 
are heading to, wich remeber me of that German converted hangar in the
osties who was looking for one person to hire, got 20 000 job applicants!

For example a Chinese top notch enginer costs a montly sallary of
400- 600 euro, no western engineer can compeete with that, china 
out examines several hundred engineers per month!!

Last time this issue was up on this list someone came with the 
idea to specialize, thats ridicoulus, as if it would be possible
for tens of tousands of engineers to specialize to save his or 
her's own rear end in the competiteon!

The smaller the population the less jobs to specialize to.
The effects are hughe/wast in diffrence comparing Germany, what,
68-72 million people to Sweden 9 million to USA, 280 million to
China 1300 million people!!

> There's a reason why you pay those $150/hr for project work Paul S. 
> mentioned in a previous mail. Or $500-$1500/day for longer-term 
> contracts depending on your negiotiation skills and how badly 
> they need you.

Well that must mean that Paul.s are charging to much for his modules? :-)
He said electronics had no value!
 
Anyhow, i have been in the situation in a very large company hiring several
tousands of consultants from very large consult firms, the consultants
agenda was to prolong their time to extrac as much money as possible 
and by any possible crocky means!

Some even put into system to bill the large company several times 
just to se if the can get paid for the job several times, many
times they succseed, this i havent seen at small firms. 

Its not always so that its the need to get job that dictates a 
consultants ability to get the contract, several times its the 
market who creates an artifical request or "prestigue" 
of having consultants hired!! Quite wierd, but i have seen it myself!

> Of course I know "clauses". It's not like I never worked as a consultant 
> and freelancer myself. Mostly on projects which were already in deep 
> trouble (read: delayed for various reasons; assigning the wrong persons 
> to the task and/or not paying them enough being one cause for that) and 
> where they needed someone to do come up with a solution by yesterday.

I dont like the idea of consultants, i considder them in most
cases overflow, the job should be done inside the producing 
company by its own personel. But market dictates "lowest cost
highest proffit", its about greed! Good for the consumer,,, bah!
Im not a consumer, im a user!

KD