[sdiy] BBDs

[anthony]

> Yes, indeed.  A/DA used a 4007 for voltage control of a 4047 with buffers
> for their outstanding flanger as well as the STD-1.  Works very well, too.

Morley does it that way too.

>>Here's a really cool circuit:
>
>>http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/jh_storm_tide_flanger.html
>>It's a pretty big circuit though.
>
> Heckuva flanger.  Don't forget JH's Dimension D project, too!  The 
> Dimension
> D is what the Dimension C was based off of - same general concept, a bit

Didn't forget! I just didn't want to dump too much info at once.

> different implementation, used MN3007's originally (JH used four TDA 512
> stage devices, which I imagine were more accessible in Germany at the 
> time).
> The Rolls Royce of chorus devices, IMO.

I'm making something like a Dimension C with true stereo liek the D. 
(Because all I have is the C schematic.
I've modded the circuit so much now that it's really my own design.
I didn't have any NE570's so I thought I'd use National's LM1894 Dynamic 
Noise Reduction chip. I have a whole bunch of these and they are very cool. 
The original gear I got 'em from used them /before/ the BBD which is kind of 
silly.
I'm also using the CE-300 schematic. They're very similar and yet very 
differentAnd for my clocks I'm using the 4007/4047 combo. It's been hard for 
me to keep this simple like the D & C were. I intend to use a knob to mix 
the two channels because I hear this can create a thru-zero flanging effect. 
But other than that I plan to use just the four buttons (I'm just using 
regular push-on-push-off's so I'll actually have around 16 settings) and 
maybe some switches for range. But having CV inputs would be cool so I'm 
doing that. I want to try a multi-phase clock. I actually thought about 
using 3 BBD's instead of 2, but my goal is to use just ONE grid board 
(276-168B) from Radio-Shack! This would not be possible if I didn't have a 
bunch of inline M5218's. I wish I had a lot more of those. I have 6 dual 
op-amps on there! (Along with everything else.) I'm using 2SC2240GR's for 
the LPF's, but I have some 2SC732BL's and a bucket-load of 2SC1815GR's...

>>I'm working on one using 2 R5106's. (Probably more suitable than 3207's)
>>For the MN3207's if you need really fast clocking speeds (which you really
> do) >- up to 1.5 MHz can be done - you need a buffer. Three inverters for
> each >clock phase (using a 4049).
>
> MN3207's can be overclocked to get really short delay times suitable for
> flanging.  I agree the SAD devices were probably the best suited for
> flanging (though the shorter staged MN devices were pretty good - too).

I've overclocked an MN3207 to 1.5MHz without a buffer and it seemed to work 
OK. It falls off past that though. I totally forgot about that until now. 
The 3207 is in my Radio-Shack reverb which I've hacked and thrashed a lot. 
It has a li'l bank of 1/16th" jacks on the right side. These things actually 
sound pretty good if you add some gain to the regen op-amp and put about a 
33KOhm resistor inline with the dry signal right between the blue wire and 
the op-amp on the right side. What? I know you guys all have one of these 
somewhere in a closet.

Yeah MN3006's overclock really well. Ganging a bunch of them up and mixing 
it with a 12-stage fixed phase shifter is way cool too (trying a 32-stage 
soon). This a lot like what's done on the Storm Tide but I wanted a bigtime 
"Theta Processor"

> Later incarnations of the A/DA flanger used the MN3010, which is pretty 
> much
> set up like the SAD1024 (two individual 512 stage sections), without the
> really high clock rate specs (100 kHz max for the MN3010).  Didn't stop
> A/DA, though - they clocked them at the same rate anyway and it worked 
> fine.
> I used to have one of those A/DA's - outstanding flanger.  The MN3011 has
> the same max clock rate, and they clocked that one up to 150 kHz on the
> STD-1.
>

I want to make something liek the STD. I want some MN3011's...
I just found a schematic today.

>>Here's a link for that:
>
>>http://www.hollis.co.uk/john/ultraflanger3.jpg
>>It's for MN3007 but I think it's not too rough to adapt. Just tweaking the
> bias >and power supply.
>
>>There are schematics for flangers with MN3207's, but all of the reviews of
> these >models are fairly poor. I'm guessing that too slow clock speeds 
> were
> used so >what they really were were more like tubular chorus.
>
>
> The MN3207 is actually spec'ed to twice the clock rate that the MN3007 is.
> In fact, the Morley Sapphire flanger used the same clock set-up as A/DA, 
> but
> it wasn't near the flanger (and didn't hit the clock rates) that the A/DA
> did.  Quite easy to tweak up, though.  I clocked an MN3207 around 1 MHz by
> playing with the values.  But, there's more to a good flanger than just a
> high clock rate, and A/DA didn't miss a lick.


Yeah so those lackluster flangers can actually be tweaked up good.. I forgot 
about the 3207 having a spec'd higher clock rate. It has a lower S/N ratio 
though. I wonder how big of a deal that is? Like should I hold out for 
MN3005's or would MN3205's be fine? But that's another  project. (I thought 
having an analog delay that used 6 MN3005's would be cool. I want to out-do 
the Maxon units. I'd build it so that I could add them in piecemeal.)

I think a great way to make a boring flanger more interesting is to have two 
of them and mix them. Two radically different ones would be choice. Although 
the Infinite Flanger uses two very similar flanging units in the same 
package. I like Juergen Haible's idea of just having one and having a loop 
to mix another one in. I can't wait 'til I get my Storm Tide inspired 
flanger finished. I have an aluminum 19" rack for it to go in. The ears were 
milled from billet. I also have some rad solid aluminum knobs (half of them 
are coaxial pots with pull switches - fun).



> C is >true stereo. And even though it's pretty subtle it blows people 
> away.
>
> I couldn't agree more.  It so blew me away, Jeff Pontius and I teamed up 
> and
> built a couple of them in rack mount version.  I handled the circuits and
> Jeff handled the hardware and final assembly.  It's one of the sweetest

I thought about putting mine in a Geiger counter. Assembly of it is taking a 
while. Mostly because of the need to find ways to artfully squeeze all of 
those parts on the small board. I have some cool large value polycarbonate 
caps that I'm using for the LFO. Also I'm also building a digital delay (the 
badtz goodfortune one) with a psycho LFO built around a 74HCT14 which can 
either modulate the clock rate or the other, sane LFO. And of course a lot 
of time is being spent designing Synth-a-saurus Rex (mostly Ray Wilson and 
Ken Stone stuff).

> A very good starting point indeed.
>
>>I need to find the link to the flanger uses a 4007/4047 for the clock.
>>If I can't find it I'll mail a scan of my handdrawn version.
>
> Check out the Morley site - the Sapphire Flanger is there.  Mike Irwin did 
> a

I have the Morely schematic. Mine's a little different. It uses an op-amp 
instead of the darlington and the 4007 is hooked up a bit differently.

> clone of the A/DA using the SAD1024.  A breeze through Aron's Stompbox
> List's search function should bring up a link to a drawing of it by 
> Stephen
> Giles.  Use the values Mike put in there, but adjust the supply voltage
> accordingly - MN32XX are lower voltage parts.

If I'm patient I can get as many R5106's as I need. Those work pretty much 
just as well as SAD1024's (if you use two). They only need a single phase 
clock two. (Although you can use a two-phase clock too with 2...)
These BBD's like 12V better than 9 if I recall correctly. I usually use +/- 
7.5 V, since it's easy to do with 2 9V batteries.
(and I have some 18VAC wallwarts). It's what I run my synth stuff at too.

I've thought about getting a CV flanger to track v/oct for some modeling. 
I've heard some examples and actually love that psychotic flute sound. I 
think a mixture of tracking short delay and fixed short delay with some 
phase-shifting would sound sweet. I think I'll add some modeling stuff on 
Synth-a-saurus. It's kind of small, but with a Dremel tool I'm sure I can 
get a lot in there. Including a stereo amp with speakers in the bottom for 
ballast.

>>All of these links have good chorus examples.
>>I hope that gets you started. (Hope I didn't over-answer)
>
> Better than under-answer.  =0)
>
> Cheers,
> Scott

Oh yeah! You're the Birth of a Synth guy! Your page along with Juergen's was 
a big inspiration for my Dim C project. I call mine "Dimension ME". I never 
would have thought to do through zero flanging with the Dim C. I think 
having 2 BBD's obviates the need for fast clock speeds a little maybe. Well 
a single BBD even clocked really fast still can't go through zero. But 
clocking it really fast and making the delay really really short almost 
makes it. Making it sound better than run of the mill flangers. BF-1 vs BF-2

The modeling stuff you did is really cool too.

I just had aan unrelated brainstorm: I'll bet those 2SC710's I have would be 
good for making white noise. I've been on a hunt for choice noise trannies. 
I also have some antique zeners (some look really cool - liek the gold TO-8)

Am I the only one who uses Japanese transistors almost exclusively? I 
intuitively know which ones correspond to the Euro ones now. I get the best 
ones from tape decks from the 70's: 2SC1815GR/BL's, 2SC732BL's... I 
mentioned all this earlier I think...

ramble on...

>