Fwd: Buggy Whips [was]Re: [sdiy] Should I repair my Fostex, or should I go HD recording?

[hichakhok]

Begin forwarded message:

> From: hichakhok <fallenethers at blueyonder.co.uk>
> Date: 1 January 2005 12:44:05 GMT
> To: "Kenneth Elhardt" <elhardt at worldnet.att.net>
> Subject: Re: Buggy Whips [was]Re: [sdiy] Should I repair my Fostex, or 
>    should I go HD recording?
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>> (regarding sustain pedal down samples) But they don't work like a 
>>>> piano,
>> because you'd have to create a different mix for every chord to 
>> include the
>> overtones of each chord in addition to the notes themselves.<<
>>
>> This is nit-picking.  Each sampled note already has coupled string 
>> vibration
>> within it do to the sustain pedal held down.  There's no need to do a
>> different mix for every chord since the different notes already have
>> different coupled string vibrations.  They just add together.
>
> Holding down 2 non sustain pedal sampled notes will not give the sonic 
> same result as holding down 2
> notes without sustain on a real piano. Thus to be accurate every 
> combination of resonance would have to be sampled.
> Even with the sustain down the result is different due to the way the 
> combined notes react with the soundboard.
> They do not just add together. It is also impossible to swell dynamics 
> using the pedal on sampled pianos
> like you can on a real instrument, ie collecting the sound in the body.
> Furthermore simply having the sustain pedal up and down is not enough. 
> Half pedaling quarter pedaling are all
> essential requirements.
>
>
>>   It's real
>> because it's a sample of a real piano.  The only problem I see in 
>> samples is
>> if you push down the sustain pedal after hitting the keys.
>
> The time of the pedal in relation to attack of notes is infinite and 
> the many variances
> crucial to expression. This detail is completely lost on sampled 
> pianos.
>
>>
>>>> I've tried all the recent gigasampled pianos and they can all be 
>>>> described
>> in one word: crap. They're fine buried in a mix with a ton of other 
>> stuff
>> happening, but they sound like plastic plinky shite when played 
>> naked.<<
>>
>> I'm beginning to think you're trying all of them dry.  Anything 
>> sounds lousy
>> without reverb of some sort.  As soon as reverb is added, the sound is
>> pushed away and obscured and most of those tiny almost inaudible 
>> things
>> become totally inaudible.  I've heard plenty of sample demos of most
>> instrumetns that sound like the real thing in a recording.  Demos that
>> should be able to pass as the real thing to anybody.  Can't sound 
>> much more
>> real than real.
>>
> No you are wrong. A close miked steinway can sound beautiful. IF you 
> are saying sampled pianos
> are great because in a mix with reverb you cant hear the difference 
> between a real one you have a weak argument.
> Adding digital reverb to a well recorded  bosendorfer would be insane. 
> Therefore the same should apply to sampled pianos.
> Adding reverb to sampled pianos always adds mud due to hammer noise. 
> Bad sound engineers run into this problem
> with real pianos.I see it again and again on sessions.
>
>
>
>> BTW, since most people don't have a Bosendorfer sitting in their 
>> house, a
>> sampled Bosendorfer probably sounds a lot better than what they do 
>> have even
>> if the strings don't behave 100% like the real thing.
>
> A cheap yamaha upright will be more expressive than any sampled piano 
> library.
>
>>
>>
>> Note that 8 velocity cross-switching levels doesn't mean there are 
>> only 8
>> levels of loudness.  Every note will still have 127 different loudness
>> values, and possibly brightness if a filter is also used.  Sampling 
>> works
>> particularly well for instruments like harpsichord or pipe organ 
>> which don't
>> have velocity responsive keyboards where velocity levels isn't even an
>> issue.
>>
>> -Elhardt
>>
>
> only having 8 tonal gradations is a joke! A filter????? Would you 
> filter a hamburg steinway ????
> Sampled pianos are useful, rehearsals small gigs etc. But compared to 
> the real thing they are still truly awful.
>
>
> best leonm
>
>
>
>
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