[sdiy] Linear detuning and Gamelan

[Peachey, Dave]

Kevin,

As one who plays Balinese gamelan every week, this topic had caught my
attention but I didn't think to respond in this vein so thanks for raising
it :-)

I've tried, and managed successfully, to emulate basic gamelan tuning
(actually, it was Javanese slendro and pelog tuning) using the Native
Instruments FM7 application.  However, the added complexity of Balinese
paired tunings are a bit beyond my expertise.

My issues in this area would be several-fold:
*	the paired tuning sounds best when there is a consistent beat rate
between the same pair of notes on two of the same type of instrument (you've
already mentioned that)
*	this would require a different "absolute difference" in frequency
between the pairs of notes for each note on the gamelan scale and for each
of the different types of instrument (already covered)
*	bearing in mind the myriad different types of Balinese gamelan - are
we talking, for example, about Gender Wayang, Angklung, Gong Kebyar, Semara
Dana (to name only those ones which I have played) - you'll be looking,
potentially, at a custom tuning for each note of each type of gamelan
*	each of the above-mentioned styles has a different number of notes
in the scale - plus two of them are slendro tuning, two are pelog - again
you're looking at a custom tuning for each note of each type of gamelan

Oh, and this is not to mention that every gamelan I've played in England,
Java or Bali has been tuned to a different absolute scale and set of
intervals/beat frequencies between the notes!  There is no standard in this
area at all.

I came at this from wanting to create an electronic Balinese gamelan
(although I started playing the real thing before getting interested in
creating a virtual instrument) and found that I also had to contend with:
*	the paired tunings are played in unison in the lower octave
instruments
*	the higher octave instruments sometimes play in unison, sometimes in
khotekan (interlocking parts)
*	the whole gamelan interacts with itself - sampling standalone
instruments and building a gamelan that way sounds dull and unnatural

Overall, I'm not sure that there is a simple answer to this one - and I'm
only looking at it from the musical perspective not from the practical
electronic aspects!

Interesting topic for discussion, though!

Cheers
Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [SMTP:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]
> Sent:	Thursday, August 04, 2005 2:20 PM
> To:	synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject:	[sdiy] Linear detuning and Gamelan
> 
> Lurker blundering in:
> 
> I wondered what anyone knows about Gamelan tuning in relation to linear
> detuning.  
> 
> Frankly, my knowledge is little and my thinking is muddled, but below is
> my understanding about what comparisons can be drawn between linear
> detuning and the kind used in Gamelan instruments.  An understanding that
> might improve given anyone's comments, suggestions, input.
> 
> Where I'm starting from:  My scant experience of Balinese gamelan is there
> are pairs of instruments played simultaneously.  A given metallic tine or
> whatever on one instrument is tuned a beat frequency away from the "same"
> tine on the other.  Stuck together they create a shimmering tone (or maybe
> more of a wobble in the lower register).  Point is the tuning of paired
> instruments might be linear (as least within the given pair of
> instruments--other instrument pairs may have other beat freq tunings) to
> get a consistent beat freq., or perhaps the skewed linear JH and others
> have discussed.
> 
> In a basic synth patch, using two oscillators in the same way would mean a
> similarly linear or skewed linear detuning.  Or getting more complicated
> with the timbral issues (w/o getting into full-on acoustical modeling),
> two independents sets of FM generated clang tones sounding more like the
> original Gamelan would be tuned apart from one another in linear or skewed
> linear fashion.
> 
> Does this sound correct?
> 
> It's a weird area for comparison, I realize.  Gamelan scales don't exactly
> correspond to equal temp. Western scales.  Instruments don't generally
> span more than a couple of octaves; many span less than than.  Lots of
> differences.  But trying to get a concept of how the subtle mechanics of
> one might relate to the electronics of the other, esp. detuning for beat
> freq shimmer or wobble.  
> 
> Relurking on the hobby horse he rode in on,
> Kevin Seward


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