[sdiy] slightly ot: Chua circuit and chaos

Mon Feb 10 17:19:07 CET 2003

No real chaos in physics ???

hmmm that IS interesting.

from the point of view of God, I suppose not. Presumably a supreme
being can know the location and direction of every electron at the same
time. Also presumably, God can observe quantum effects without influence of the observation...

however it IS chaotic to ME.  The chua oscillator is real and exhibits
unpredictable behavior. Is this a model ???

Computers probably cannot be trusted, except as their results can be
be compared with real (well real to US) phenomena...

A lot of things we consider chaotic (or semi chaotic) are really just outside our perception. I consider a shift register noise source of sufficient length... random. Its not... but its random to me.

Chaos does not exist ?  (it does to me...)
let us know more of your book report when you're done. Interesting!

H^) harry

>I'm just reading a book a second time, just to make sure I understand.
>The statement of this book is shocking:
>there is no real chaos in physics, it is only the models
>that can act chaotic. This topic was covered before,
>even by the "inventor" of numerical chaos, Lorentz.
>The tite is: "Der SchmetterlingsDefekt"
>or the butterfly Defekt
>http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3608943226/028-0134132-1666121
>It seems to be not translation or summary of other english
>texts (which is quite often the case).
>I think the autor (Mr. Wehr) has done a good job
>showing how parasites take up a new fashion of science
>and draw more then speculative statements out of it.
>He also shows what huge methodical questions come up
>if physics takes place in the computer and not
>in the lab any more. Questions like: 
>can we trust computer simulations, if different operation systems
>and hardware bring very different results for the same problem?
>Are real numbers a correct model for physicl quantities?
>m.c.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: harrybissell [mailto:harrybissell at prodigy.net]
>Sent: Sonntag, 9. Februar 2003 19:01
>To: music.maker at gte.net
>Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] expo accuracy? or integrator accuracy?, or both?
>sort of like....
>"I built the Chua oscillator but the result seems chaotic to me... what am I
>doing wrong ?"
>:^P   
>H^) harry (who was going to build a chua oscillator... till I heard an MP3 of one
>in use...
>I can barely stand the chaos of an MS-20 filter in self-oscillation..)
>Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>> Grant Richter  wrote:
>> >> I've had an ASM-1 VCO measure in at a 21 octave range, but the last part
>> >> wasn't
>> >
>> >That would be about 6 decades or 10E-9 to 10E-3 from the current source.
>> >
>> >That should be normal for an exponential pair, but of course a current of
>> >10E-9 can easily leak away or be absorbed by bias currents.
>> >
>> >Rather than perfecting the a "good enough" core, wouldn't it be more
>> >interesting to investigate new dynamic waveshaping designs like the Buchla
>> >Music Easel?
>> >
>> >It seems to me the frequency stability is acceptable, but new timbral design
>> >has barely been touched on. Timbre is arguably the next most important
>> >parameter after pitch is satisfactory.
>>
>> Hear hear!  Does "dynamic waveshaping" mean "ever changing" or in our world,
>> voltage controlled ?  I would love to play more with this.  I've done the
>> usual messing with VCO sync, PWM and a bit of folding, but not much more.
>> Bifurcation, as in the Chua chaos oscillator system, looks cool, but the Chua
>> seems too "out of control" for my use.
>>
>> =========================================================
>> - That which gets rewarded, gets done.
>> - What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
>> - Government: The other religion.
>> - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>> - Thankfully, insects are rather small.
>>
>> -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>> -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>> -- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/
>> -- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/