Macintosh PCB Software FREE Re: [sdiy] Schematic to PCBproblems

harry harrybissell at prodigy.net
Tue Jun 4 07:07:39 CEST 2002


Hah... fooled you.

I 'do' use EWB for simulation (and for schematics for simulation)...
but I've never used the PCB features that the package has. I don't
have Ultiboard. I really DO use Hiwire II  (even though it is probably
the least popular package still in existance).

I do add that those who 'did' buy it usually found no reason to upgrade...

AND... I note that your autorouter example 'is' digital.  I did admit that
the autorouters would do OK for that (at least at very low speeds).

Might note that for very HIGH speed designs the advanced cad tools
would be a necessity as well...

The autorouters ARE faster, and many board houses use them. I usually
LOATHE their results. They are in the business to make money... I like to
make ART !

BTW....ever notice that as the last engineering bugs are removed from a
design...
the artwork becomes beautiful... almost as if there is an invisible hand routing
the
traces.  Everytime I have some gates connected 'wrong'... the artwork does not
flow properly.

H^) harry

ps you're not gonna tell them about the .jpgs on my HD are you ???  ;^P

Theo wrote:

> Ok Harry here you go ;^)
>
> Auto routing can save you lots a time and can make great dual sided PCBs.
> BUT the process is not as automatic as the name suggest.
> Fist off you _have_ to do the power structure by hand.
> After that the autorouter can help you with routing selected nets between
> selected components.
>
> Most obvious place to start using the autorouter is for data and address
> busses.
> Don't over do it, 2 or 3 ICs at the time is the way to go.
> When you got the feel for it, you can start using it on strategic parts of
> analogue circuits.
> Usually  I end up shoving the traces the autorouter did,
> often you can reduce a via or 2 (make that 10) and make place for
> "unroutable" traces.
>
> <liar mode>
> Harry I just accessed you HD to check your layout program and saw you're
> using Electronic workbench/Ultiboard.
> (No I didn't access your HD, I just keep track ALL the programs ALL the list
> members use)
> </liar mode> ;^P
>
> The auto router provided with EWB is quite usable.
> For analogue stuff try to let it route limited area (square inch) of the
> PCB,
> chances are you will have to fix up a thing or two,
> but still will be done quicker that doing it all by hand.
>
> Theo (using autorouters since 1987)
>
> From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
>
> > Arrrh now you went and said the dirty word....
> >
> > AUTOROUTING !!!
> >
> > Most programs do not excel at autorouting, even very expensive ones.
> > If you are doing an all-digital design you might get away with it. For
> most
> > analog work, designs are done largely by hand (human brain).
> >
> > Autorouters need a lot of knowledge and experience to set up, you usually
> > have to specify the routing of critical components. They usually NEVER
> result
> > in a single sided board... SELDOM result in a Double Sided board... so
> usually
> > you will end up with a four layer ($$$) board, at least.
> >
> > The other problem is it can be hard for a newbie to spot when an
> autorouter
> > is hosing them. They will occasionally route stupid things like zig-zags
> or
> > spirals
> > that no human being would conceive or tolerate. For digital it might be
> OK...
> > fo
> > analog it will be crosstalk, distortion, oscillation, rf pickup, etc.
> >
> > There are  lots of people on this list who could probably help you get
> started
> > in manual routing.  Start with some really simple project to get the idea.
> Then
> > if
> > you want to get an autorouter you'll be better equipped to deal with it. I
> can
> > give you some tips if you like (offlist) or if there are other beginners
> we
> > could do a bit
> > of an onlist class.  It would probably benefit a lot of folks out there...
> >
> > (and the xperts can have fun flaming me and saying what an @ss I am and
> how
> > they would do it different / better... but what the hell ????)
> >
> > H^) harry    (self proclaimed xpert)
> >
> >
> > Hallvard Tangeraas wrote:
> >
> > > At 15:40 -0700 03-06-02, Cynthia Webster wrote:
> > >
> > > >Hej pa dej Hallvard!
> > >
> > > Hi there! Are you Swedish?
> > >
> > > >Try This link for Free Mac PCB trace Software!
> > > >
> > > >http://www.swcp.com/~jchavez/osmond.html
> > >
> > > Yes, I've downloaded it and have also been in touch with the author for
> > > suggestions on improvement. It actually even works on my old 68040 power
> > > Macintosh computer!
> > >
> > > As I've never used electronics design software before the learning curve
> is
> > > pretty high, but I spent a while some months ago trying to figure out
> the
> > > basics. I still have a lot to learn, but I'm getting there (hopefully).
> > >
> > > Unfortunately I don't think this program will help in this case. I have
> a
> > > feeling I need some sort of software where you draw the schematics, then
> > > have it automatically "convert" it into a PCB layout with the best
> possible
> > > placement of parts. Is this what they call "autorouting"?
> > >
> > > >ps: there's also this alternative with Douglas for $
> > > >
> > > >http://www.douglas.com/software/pro/index.html
> > >
> > > Yes, i've downloaded this as well, but I don't know if it will do what I
> > > want it to. All of this stuff seems pretty complicated. I've already
> spent
> > > so much time on each of these programs, each with a very high
> > > learning-curve, only to find out later that it's not somethign I can
> use.
> > > Frustrating.
> > > But you think this is what I need to be able to make that
> test-oscillator?
> > >
> > > Hallvard
> > > --
> > > Notator/Creator SL : <http://www.notator.org>
> > > Atari Launchpad    : <http://launchpad.atari.org>
> >
> > --
> > Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
> > Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
> > Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
> > go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
> > hide... how about YOU ???
> >
> >

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???





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