[sdiy] out in the open

[harry]

Howdy Larry

Yes, yes, yes... yes

especially the "sell the soul for Aries modules..."   ;^P

I'd say that if someone wants to have their design made into a kit...
they should.  I did a board distributed by EFM  (the PV-1) mainly
for myself... but while going through the trouble of a layout I felt I
should offer it on the list.  I still have not (or will ever) "broken even"
but so what.  I got a nice pro board for myself... and everyone benefits.

Some might not like to do this... and if they do NOT want someone to
mass produce (meaning more than quantity for yourself) then others
should respect their wishes.

Some designs are so esoteric that no one would want them besides their
creators...

Where ther is a commercial interest... such as the JH 2040 clone that is
available as a MOTM module... I would stay away.  There I would have no
right to go. If you want one they ARE available.

If you see someone's design and you want to do a production run... just ask
them. Most would be happy to give permission just for a couple of boards
for themselves...

and some RECOGNITION....   ;^)

Larry wrote:

> Hello
>
> I am fairly new to the list and this is my first posting.  I caught this
> discussion and was wondering what it was about.  Now, I believe that I
> know.  Please allow me to add my 2 cents worth.  I am a computer person by
> trade, and by hobby.  I am getting back into Analog Synthesis after many
> years away (the last time I was involved, I couldn't come up with the money
> to buy PAIA 2700 series modules that were just being introduced!  And I
> considered selling my soul to the Devil in order to buy Aries
> modules!)  But this discussion is really no different from the 'Open
> Source' software issues and Linux community.  Some people like to do it
> themselves, others do not have the time, ability, or inclination to do it
> themselves.  So, Open Source software gets packaged and sold.  There is
> always a discussion about this, and there will never be a final
> resolution.  However, most of the companies that do this packaging also
> contribute back to the community (bug fixes, new packages,
> ...).  Consider:  Why shouldn't someone be able to buy a kit or assembled
> module of a design seen here if they do not want to build it from
> scratch?  On the other hand, shouldn't the original designer or designers
> get credit for their design?  Remember, credit is often in terms of
> acknowledgement and recognition and not in dollars.  I certainly can not
> offer any answer or solution to the situation, but simply consider the
> possibility that the packaging of ideas and designs posted here may mean
> that those designs and ideas reach a far greater number of users then they
> might otherwise.  I would, however, hope that any company using those ideas
> and designs would give credit where credit is due, and would contribute
> back to this community.
>
> Larry
>
> At 12:08 PM 9/7/01 +0200, Magnus Danielson wrote:
> >From: "Dieter Doepfer" <dieter_doepfer at hotmail.com>
> >Subject: Re: [sdiy] out in the open
> >Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 05:40:49 +0000
> >
> >Hello All,
> >
> > > Hallo, Michael
> > > Your certainly not allone, I to get sometimes the feeling that "some"
> > > members of this list have a probelm with me. I really wonder why.
> > > All I do is lurk on this list, I don't contribute so how could I have
> > up set
> > > some one?
> > >
> > > Heil
> > > Dipl. Phys. D. Doepfer
> > >
> > > *****************************
> > > ++  http://www.doepfer.de/ ++
> > > ++  info at doepfer.de        ++
> > > ++  Lochhamer Str. 63      ++
> > > ++  8032 Grafeling         ++
> > > *****************************
> >
> >... and the shit hit the fan!
> >
> >(no pun intended, just using the expression itself)
> >
> >Here we go again.
> >
> >/* READ THE TEXT BELOW CAREFULLY!!! MD */
> >
> >Now we have allready seen the intermodulation of two old
> >rages/flame-wars in the Synth-DIY history. We have the "Dieter Doepfer
> >who stole this and that from so and so" and the "Adolf Stalin"
> >storries. Anyone been on this list during the last year or so should
> >have got the references by now.
> >
> >As for the "Dieter Doepfer story" I am ambivalent in various
> >directions, I don't know how to relate to it basically.
> >
> >As for the "Adolf Stalin story" I know more than I like. All the
> >issues where not shown on the list.
> >
> >Either way, I don't like having big figths on the list. If you want
> >that go somewhere else to figth. If you figth offline, please keep a
> >good face to the list.
> >
> >Also, the "Dieter Doepfer story" together with a few other things
> >brings in another issue. It is equally worthy of a big figth if
> >treated incorrectly, I just want to give my view on it. Maybe this is
> >a better figth to have than the others... if we have to figth at all.
> >
> >One must recall that there is a fundamental difference between
> >building stuff for onces own joy and that of designing and sell things
> >for profit. There's the eluding word... profit. Once one has passed
> >the line from DIYer to making money or att least allowing others to
> >make money on designs one is also put into a major dilemma which may
> >not be apparent or not. What to share and what to not share. The
> >buissness logic usually say that you should let as little as possible
> >on your products be known to your competiters in order for you to keep
> >your (relative) market lead. This effectively means that you shut up
> >about everything. On the other side lies the DIY spirit where people
> >are happy to give away design ideas and share good and bad experience.
> >When the migth dollar, D-mark, krona or whatever comes into play in a
> >DIY environment, it causes many types of reactions. Some people shut
> >up because they now make money on things. Some shut up since they feel
> >that they don't want to give away ideas to other people to make money
> >out of without getting a share. Some shut up because they get a piece
> >of the action when someone else capitalize on their design or
> >findings. Some shut up just because they think that what they share is
> >being at risk as being "hijacked" by someone else without getting
> >anything back.
> >
> >All this is a very complex issue, and some think it is only an issue
> >of money, which is far from all. Some think it is only an issue about
> >getting recognition, which is also not all of it.
> >
> >The trouble is how it effects the community, not only the direct
> >partners.
> >
> >We allready know that there are people on this list that sell things
> >commersially one way or another. The level naturally diffrentiate,
> >from those that is basically just doing a few DIY-level boxes for
> >other "freaks" to those that to full-blown commersial products.
> >
> >Now, I don't want to burn the fingers on people, but I can't say that
> >I at all times have felt comfortable with how people have acted
> >either. For me the nitty-ditty details of this and that case is not
> >very interesting. However, I would like a serious debate on these
> >moral dilemmas. Also, I would like to make people aware of the
> >existence of these dilemmas.
> >
> >With this I would like to point out that it is VERY difficult to keep
> >true to the DIY spirit among other DIYers when also doing money on
> >it. Once's own judgement gets clouded and it is only a few people
> >which has a natural talent or awareness enougth to be able to handle
> >with sufficient care.
> >
> >In the end. We need to get all this into balance, or else the
> >Synth-DIY community that we are will die away. We have allready seen
> >this happening before in other areas, such as a certain computer club
> >in Silicon Valey in the 70-80thies.
> >
> >Dieter, please don't feel attacked by this, but rather, come over and
> >share some experience with us.
> >
> >Respectfully Yours,
> >Magnus - I'll think I'll pass as a Synth-DIY oldtimer at least