[sdiy] out in the open

[Gert Jalass]

Just to serve my curiosity :
* Why should DD use a hotmail address with all that doepfer.de around ?
* I don't remember DD saying "Heil" during any of the contacts I did have
with him. He's a German - but ...
Strange ...
Gert

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry" <ltroth at socal.rr.com>
To: "Magnus Danielson" <cfmd at swipnet.se>; <dieter_doepfer at hotmail.com>
Cc: <frankentron at hotmail.com>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] out in the open


> Hello
>
> I am fairly new to the list and this is my first posting.  I caught this
> discussion and was wondering what it was about.  Now, I believe that I
> know.  Please allow me to add my 2 cents worth.  I am a computer person by
> trade, and by hobby.  I am getting back into Analog Synthesis after many
> years away (the last time I was involved, I couldn't come up with the
money
> to buy PAIA 2700 series modules that were just being introduced!  And I
> considered selling my soul to the Devil in order to buy Aries
> modules!)  But this discussion is really no different from the 'Open
> Source' software issues and Linux community.  Some people like to do it
> themselves, others do not have the time, ability, or inclination to do it
> themselves.  So, Open Source software gets packaged and sold.  There is
> always a discussion about this, and there will never be a final
> resolution.  However, most of the companies that do this packaging also
> contribute back to the community (bug fixes, new packages,
> ...).  Consider:  Why shouldn't someone be able to buy a kit or assembled
> module of a design seen here if they do not want to build it from
> scratch?  On the other hand, shouldn't the original designer or designers
> get credit for their design?  Remember, credit is often in terms of
> acknowledgement and recognition and not in dollars.  I certainly can not
> offer any answer or solution to the situation, but simply consider the
> possibility that the packaging of ideas and designs posted here may mean
> that those designs and ideas reach a far greater number of users then they
> might otherwise.  I would, however, hope that any company using those
ideas
> and designs would give credit where credit is due, and would contribute
> back to this community.
>
> Larry
>
> At 12:08 PM 9/7/01 +0200, Magnus Danielson wrote:
> >From: "Dieter Doepfer" <dieter_doepfer at hotmail.com>
> >Subject: Re: [sdiy] out in the open
> >Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 05:40:49 +0000
> >
> >Hello All,
> >
> > > Hallo, Michael
> > > Your certainly not allone, I to get sometimes the feeling that "some"
> > > members of this list have a probelm with me. I really wonder why.
> > > All I do is lurk on this list, I don't contribute so how could I have
> > up set
> > > some one?
> > >
> > > Heil
> > > Dipl. Phys. D. Doepfer
> > >
> > > *****************************
> > > ++  http://www.doepfer.de/ ++
> > > ++  info at doepfer.de        ++
> > > ++  Lochhamer Str. 63      ++
> > > ++  8032 Grafeling         ++
> > > *****************************
> >
> >... and the shit hit the fan!
> >
> >(no pun intended, just using the expression itself)
> >
> >Here we go again.
> >
> >/* READ THE TEXT BELOW CAREFULLY!!! MD */
> >
> >Now we have allready seen the intermodulation of two old
> >rages/flame-wars in the Synth-DIY history. We have the "Dieter Doepfer
> >who stole this and that from so and so" and the "Adolf Stalin"
> >storries. Anyone been on this list during the last year or so should
> >have got the references by now.
> >
> >As for the "Dieter Doepfer story" I am ambivalent in various
> >directions, I don't know how to relate to it basically.
> >
> >As for the "Adolf Stalin story" I know more than I like. All the
> >issues where not shown on the list.
> >
> >Either way, I don't like having big figths on the list. If you want
> >that go somewhere else to figth. If you figth offline, please keep a
> >good face to the list.
> >
> >Also, the "Dieter Doepfer story" together with a few other things
> >brings in another issue. It is equally worthy of a big figth if
> >treated incorrectly, I just want to give my view on it. Maybe this is
> >a better figth to have than the others... if we have to figth at all.
> >
> >One must recall that there is a fundamental difference between
> >building stuff for onces own joy and that of designing and sell things
> >for profit. There's the eluding word... profit. Once one has passed
> >the line from DIYer to making money or att least allowing others to
> >make money on designs one is also put into a major dilemma which may
> >not be apparent or not. What to share and what to not share. The
> >buissness logic usually say that you should let as little as possible
> >on your products be known to your competiters in order for you to keep
> >your (relative) market lead. This effectively means that you shut up
> >about everything. On the other side lies the DIY spirit where people
> >are happy to give away design ideas and share good and bad experience.
> >When the migth dollar, D-mark, krona or whatever comes into play in a
> >DIY environment, it causes many types of reactions. Some people shut
> >up because they now make money on things. Some shut up since they feel
> >that they don't want to give away ideas to other people to make money
> >out of without getting a share. Some shut up because they get a piece
> >of the action when someone else capitalize on their design or
> >findings. Some shut up just because they think that what they share is
> >being at risk as being "hijacked" by someone else without getting
> >anything back.
> >
> >All this is a very complex issue, and some think it is only an issue
> >of money, which is far from all. Some think it is only an issue about
> >getting recognition, which is also not all of it.
> >
> >The trouble is how it effects the community, not only the direct
> >partners.
> >
> >We allready know that there are people on this list that sell things
> >commersially one way or another. The level naturally diffrentiate,
> >from those that is basically just doing a few DIY-level boxes for
> >other "freaks" to those that to full-blown commersial products.
> >
> >Now, I don't want to burn the fingers on people, but I can't say that
> >I at all times have felt comfortable with how people have acted
> >either. For me the nitty-ditty details of this and that case is not
> >very interesting. However, I would like a serious debate on these
> >moral dilemmas. Also, I would like to make people aware of the
> >existence of these dilemmas.
> >
> >With this I would like to point out that it is VERY difficult to keep
> >true to the DIY spirit among other DIYers when also doing money on
> >it. Once's own judgement gets clouded and it is only a few people
> >which has a natural talent or awareness enougth to be able to handle
> >with sufficient care.
> >
> >In the end. We need to get all this into balance, or else the
> >Synth-DIY community that we are will die away. We have allready seen
> >this happening before in other areas, such as a certain computer club
> >in Silicon Valey in the 70-80thies.
> >
> >Dieter, please don't feel attacked by this, but rather, come over and
> >share some experience with us.
> >
> >Respectfully Yours,
> >Magnus - I'll think I'll pass as a Synth-DIY oldtimer at least
>